Cheetahs and Kings to join "Pro 14"

[Stumpy]

The ECC would love ye to join. It'd really help them boost the tournament and give them a chance to shake it up a bit. It'd also improve Challenge Cup as it'd mean at least 1 or 2 teams will drop down to improve that

As a fan, I do not welcome allowing the SA teams in but I think ECC would love it, more money, more opportunity for sponsors. What's not to like from their point of view? They hardly give a **** about the fans.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

delete

 

[TRF_heineken]

As a fan, I do not welcome allowing the SA teams in but I think ECC would love it, more money, more opportunity for sponsors. What's not to like from their point of view? They hardly give a **** about the fans.

Well that's a very negative point of view. Can't you see the benefits from making rugby more of a global game and tapping into new markets? Not just from a financial point of view but also from a tourism perspective etc. This move (if it happens) will be the first tournament where the SH and NH combine on a non-international level...

 

[unrated]

As far as I understand the official announcement will be made directly after the Kings vs Cheetahs game

 

[Stumpy]

Well that's a very negative point of view. Can't you see the benefits from making rugby more of a global game and tapping into new markets? Not just from a financial point of view but also from a tourism perspective etc. This move (if it happens) will be the first tournament where the SH and NH combine on a non-international level...

As a fan, my aim is to go to as many games as I can, especially in the ECC. I do not believe I would have the money and time to travel to SA for games if we were to get an SA team in our pool, especially it was to happen every season (unlikely I know). But it would get even harder to attend if we were to get a team in the knockout stages or a final was to be hosted there. We get very limited time to prepare for the knock out games as it is making it logistically very hard to attend these games and can sometimes cost a bomb. For example 2 years ago we played Clermont away at Saint Ettiene in the semi-final and it made it very hard to attend as there are not great connections between London and Saint Ettiene especially as there were about 3 weeks to prepare so a lot of our fans could not attend (what fans? we don't have any do we?) and that was only in France if we were to play a semi in SA there would be even less, maybe travel would not be too much of an issue in terms of actually getting there but it would no doubt cost an arm and a leg and you would almost certainly not be able to justify going all that way just for a weekend or in and out in one day.

I know for some SA fans this might be a non-argument as you guys play in Super Rugby and therefore do not travel to many away games and as I have read on here some home games can be hard to attend (involving lots of driving) but part of the magic of the ECC is the travelling and meeting fans from other countries especially on away days and I feel having SA teams will detract from that severely from a personal point of view.

I have nothing against playing SH teams and would love to see it, just not in the ECC. A World Club Cup similar to FIFA's or an International Challange like in League would be better.

 

[Amiga500]

As a fan, I do not welcome allowing the SA teams in

You mean as the Saracens' fan, you are worried that all your players might go home?

But sure it'd mean Nigel Wray wouldn't have to pay so many players wages in brown envelopes, so maybe he could pay more people to turn up to Allianz Park to actually watch the team.

 

[Brigantine]

This move (if it happens) will be the first tournament where the SH and NH combine on a non-international level...

Well... Sunwolves fans would split hairs and narrow that down to "the SH and Europe"

 

[Stumpy]

You mean as the Saracens' fan, you are worried that all your players might go home?

We have the highest amount of academy graduates in the Premiership and the highest percentage of homegrown player in our squad fact.
Educate yourself it is a very good read

But sure it'd mean Nigel Wray wouldn't have to pay so many players wages in brown envelopes, so maybe he could pay more people to turn up to Allianz Park to actually watch the team.

I have already admitted to one cliche do I have to admit to another? Although I Wish they'd pay me to go to Allianz Park can you show me where I sign up for this? It would save me a fortune in ST costs, it might even mean I can afford the cost of going to SA.

 

[Amiga500]

We have the highest amount of academy graduates in the Premiership and the highest percentage of homegrown player in our squad fact.
Educate yourself it is a very good read

[Sean Spicer]Well I have alternative facts here. Stop with your alternative news spreading lies and deceit. No one knows more about imports than me - and Saracens are full of imports[/Sean Spicer]

 

[TRF_heineken]

As a fan, my aim is to go to as many games as I can, especially in the ECC. I do not believe I would have the money and time to travel to SA for games if we were to get an SA team in our pool, especially it was to happen every season (unlikely I know). But it would get even harder to attend if we were to get a team in the knockout stages or a final was to be hosted there. We get very limited time to prepare for the knock out games as it is making it logistically very hard to attend these games and can sometimes cost a bomb. For example 2 years ago we played Clermont away at Saint Ettiene in the semi-final and it made it very hard to attend as there are not great connections between London and Saint Ettiene especially as there were about 3 weeks to prepare so a lot of our fans could not attend (what fans? we don't have any do we?) and that was only in France if we were to play a semi in SA there would be even less, maybe travel would not be too much of an issue in terms of actually getting there but it would no doubt cost an arm and a leg and you would almost certainly not be able to justify going all that way just for a weekend or in and out in one day.

I know for some SA fans this might be a non-argument as you guys play in Super Rugby and therefore do not travel to many away games and as I have read on here some home games can be hard to attend (involving lots of driving) but part of the magic of the ECC is the travelling and meeting fans from other countries especially on away days and I feel having SA teams will detract from that severely from a personal point of view.

I have nothing against playing SH teams and would love to see it, just not in the ECC. A World Club Cup similar to FIFA's or an International Challange like in League would be better.

With all due respect, this argument is just one side of the coin. what about attracting more people to the game of rugby??? There are thousands of Saffas living in the UK, I think this will draw them to the games and they might even bring along others.

Not every rugby fan can afford to watch every game at the stadium. So it's nice for you that you are financially in such a position to do so, but others only go once a year or so.

Well... Sunwolves fans would split hairs and narrow that down to "the SH and Europe"

Hahaha! I was waiting for someone to take the bait...

 

[die_mole]

With all due respect, this argument is just one side of the coin. what about attracting more people to the game of rugby??? There are thousands of Saffas living in the UK, I think this will draw them to the games and they might even bring along others.

Not every rugby fan can afford to watch every game at the stadium. So it's nice for you that you are financially in such a position to do so, but others only go once a year or so.



Hahaha! I was waiting for someone to take the bait...

i've found that a decent proportion of rugby fans aren't exactly fans of spreading the game... they enjoy that it's only played by seriously by 8.5 sovereign nations

 

[Stumpy]

With all due respect, this argument is just one side of the coin. what about attracting more people to the game of rugby??? There are thousands of Saffas living in the UK, I think this will draw them to the games and they might even bring along others.

Not every rugby fan can afford to watch every game at the stadium. So it's nice for you that you are financially in such a position to do so, but others only go once a year or so.

It is true that not everyone can afford to watch every game at the stadium, but if you are taking away a game that people could probably attend and replacing it with a game they definitely can't then they will not be happy.

I know there is too much rugby but I would have no problem with a separate North vs South(plus Japan) club competition.

 

[TRF_heineken]

i've found that a decent proportion of rugby fans aren't exactly fans of spreading the game... they enjoy that it's only played by seriously by 8.5 sovereign nations

Really? Where did you find them? A Trump rally?

I think after Japan's victory over the Springboks in the World Cup, a lot of people's perspectives changed regarding other nations playing rugby.

Most people I know can name at least 15 countries playing rugby...

 

[TRF_heineken]

It is true that not everyone can afford to watch every game at the stadium, but if you are taking away a game that people could probably attend and replacing it with a game they definitely can't then they will not be happy.

I know there is too much rugby but I would have no problem with a separate North vs South(plus Japan) club competition.

What is being taken away??? The tournament is expanding, if anything there will now most probably be more games than there is currently. And who knows, maybe the 2 SA teams might even play some of their "home games" in the NH.

What is to say that if the Pro12 expanded using teams from nations such as Portugal/Georgia/Russia/Germany or wherever else there is an emerging market, that the hosts will be as welcoming as us? Would it be less expensive? Are you only looking at this from a distance point of view?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I know of very few people who go to more than one, let alone three away matches in a group stage and many people who are excited for the Pro 12 to include SA, I think we'd see more fans happy than disappointed really

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

SA posters, I would like and was hoping to hear other opinions on it; a Currie Cup serving as leading into ECC with 8 SA CC teams;

14 regular season home and away CC fixtures + SF + F. + However many ECC games your teams plays in whichever tier even if SA teams don't play in the top tier (please forgive me, I know they have different names and all).

Bottom 2 of the Top 8 SA teams to play vs the 2nd tier promo/releg matches;

1 Western Province
2 Golden Lions
3 Free State Cheetahs
4 Kwazulu-Natal Sharks
5 Eastern Province (Kings or Elephants?)
6 Blue Bulls
7 Mpumalanga Pumas
8 Boland Cavaliers (I would find it difficult to pick between WP and Boland as I live on the edge and despite supporting WP have always fancied myself a Bolander.. its just they don't play in any noteworthy tournaments currently)

9 Northern Cape Griquas
10 the dross..
11...
12...
13...
14...
15 Harare?
16 Windhoek?

The 'big 6' and Pumas should find themselves all but assured their spots in the premier division. I can only really see Boland and Griquas trading places every other year depending on form.

Nambia and Zimbabwe each allowed a team in the spirit of expanding the game and for symmetry between CC premier and 1st divisions; it'd be unfair expecting the bottom placed top tier team to play for their lives against the top of the bottom tiers if they played 4 fewer regular season matches.

 

[Stumpy]

What is being taken away??? The tournament is expanding, if anything there will now most probably be more games than there is currently. And who knows, maybe the 2 SA teams might even play some of their "home games" in the NH.

What is to say that if the Pro12 expanded using teams from nations such as Portugal/Georgia/Russia/Germany or wherever else there is an emerging market, that the hosts will be as welcoming as us? Would it be less expensive? Are you only looking at this from a distance point of view?

Games in Portugal and Germany would certainly be less expensive and easier to get to than SA, I have no idea what it is like travel to Georgia but presumably easier than SA. Russian teams already play in the Challange Cup.
Look what happened when we tried to move a game to SA, people weren't happy. We moved a game to Belguim as well and people weren't happy about it but they understood as at the time we had no home ground. But from that point on they said they'd move no more home games abroad. So we decided to move our away games abroad instead and people are not happy about that but it won't stop them doing it.
At the end of the day, SA teams I am sure will join and there will be people unhappy about it like me but it doesn't matter ECC and the clubs will see the idea of more money and we do what they want. Fans are replaceable in their eyes.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Does it really matter that much if you can't go to every single game? Perhaps I'm not fan enough but I would rather the long term stability of the sport over going to a game in person.

 

[Stumpy]

Obviously, I am in the minority so I will accept defeat.

 

[munstermuffin]

I know of very few people who go to more than one, let alone three away matches in a group stage and many people who are excited for the Pro 12 to include SA, I think we'd see more fans happy than disappointed really

In fairness Alpha I go to every Munster match and have seen many faces that go to every pool game and numerous Pro 12 games away. Alot have made the Italian trips an annual thing. Also know of Leinster fans who do the same and go to quite a few away Pro 12 games taking advantage of cheap Ryanair flights etc and fact they can plan a few weeks in advance.

But equally I agree. South African teams are a great positive in my eyes for Pro12. Also there is a lot of South Africans in UK and Ireland so I can see all attendances in South Africa and here boosted.