Canada vs. U.S.A. Pacific Nations Cup. 25/05/13

[CDN_Rugby]

Anyway, all you have to do is look at the quality of the stream from Rugby Canada today compared to the US club final's stream to see how amateur RC is. Not just the camera work, but the production value, the commentary and the ref being mic-ed up.

The fact that the stream is usually crap doesn't mean that RC is amateur. The problems that Canadian rugby faces are more related to a low population in a vast country that plays rugby in both summer and winter (provincial union politics). To suggest a national union is amateur over something like a live stream doesn't look at the things that actually matter- like how that team performs.

In any case, the display in Edmonton today was no different than the usual 4-5 thousand that usually turn up for a test match against Canada in Glendale.

 

[LittleGuy]

The fact that the stream is usually crap doesn't mean that RC is amateur. The problems that Canadian rugby faces are more related to a low population in a vast country that plays rugby in both summer and winter (provincial union politics). To suggest a national union is amateur over something like a live stream doesn't look at the things that actually matter- like how that team performs.

In any case, the display in Edmonton today was no different than the usual 4-5 thousand that usually turn up for a test match against Canada in Glendale.

Yep the Men's 7's team finishing only 2 points behind the USA in it's first core season in the better part of a decade while the States has been a core team that entire time, and winning five of the last six against the States in the XV's code(only loss coming from a game played in 45C heat in Carolina) I think speaks volumes, also moving up to 13th in the world rankings on Monday when this result gets factored in. As well the Women's 7's team is one of the best in the world and the Women's XV's side is always capable of causing the bigger nations fits.

We also run a fairly succesful regional competition(the CRC has no American equivalent, the domestic comp there is more equivalent to the CDI and top Ontario comps). We have also sold out Langford for the ARC and won the right to host again.

Rugby Canada does all this on a budget of 8-10 million Canadian dollars(depending on year RWC years tend to be higher). Of which IRB contributes a little under 2 million.

Edit: And Yes the streams suck huge monkey balls, I have been one of the harshest critics of them, they are in fact I would say totally unacceptable, that being said, I hardly think this equates to Canadian rugby dropping to permantly in the bottom four of the RWC or us being amateurs.

 

[dudeabides]

If you only saw the match on the stream like me these pics Ms Teasdale took make it look so much better:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.500562906665025.1073741897.246120232109295&type=1

 

[munstermuffin]

How did Liam Og get on when he came on for the States. Great to see him step up. Always felt he could've broke in to Munster as his performances for Young Munster were top notch but fair play he took a gamble relocating to USA and really delighted for him. He's had issues with injury too

 

[usausa]

Yep the Men's 7's team finishing only 2 points behind the USA in it's first core season in the better part of a decade while the States has been a core team that entire time, and winning five of the last six against the States in the XV's code(only loss coming from a game played in 45C heat in Carolina) I think speaks volumes, also moving up to 13th in the world rankings on Monday when this result gets factored in. As well the Women's 7's team is one of the best in the world and the Women's XV's side is always capable of causing the bigger nations fits.

We also run a fairly succesful regional competition(the CRC has no American equivalent, the domestic comp there is more equivalent to the CDI and top Ontario comps). We have also sold out Langford for the ARC and won the right to host again.

Rugby Canada does all this on a budget of 8-10 million Canadian dollars(depending on year RWC years tend to be higher). Of which IRB contributes a little under 2 million.

Edit: And Yes the streams suck huge monkey balls, I have been one of the harshest critics of them, they are in fact I would say totally unacceptable, that being said, I hardly think this equates to Canadian rugby dropping to permantly in the bottom four of the RWC or us being amateurs.

To all the detractors, at least we are able to get a stream and follow play. USA home test matches are becoming difficult to watch live. They put them on Universal Sports, then make you pay an obscene amount to watch it online, not to mention you also have to listen to the terrible commentary by former Eagle Brian Hightower.

 

[psychic duck]

Yep the Men's 7's team finishing only 2 points behind the USA in it's first core season in the better part of a decade while the States has been a core team that entire time, and winning five of the last six against the States in the XV's code(only loss coming from a game played in 45C heat in Carolina) I think speaks volumes, also moving up to 13th in the world rankings on Monday when this result gets factored in. As well the Women's 7's team is one of the best in the world and the Women's XV's side is always capable of causing the bigger nations fits.

We also run a fairly succesful regional competition(the CRC has no American equivalent, the domestic comp there is more equivalent to the CDI and top Ontario comps). We have also sold out Langford for the ARC and won the right to host again.

Rugby Canada does all this on a budget of 8-10 million Canadian dollars(depending on year RWC years tend to be higher). Of which IRB contributes a little under 2 million.

Edit: And Yes the streams suck huge monkey balls, I have been one of the harshest critics of them, they are in fact I would say totally unacceptable, that being said, I hardly think this equates to Canadian rugby dropping to permantly in the bottom four of the RWC or us being amateurs.

No, but the shoddiness is a good summary of the amateurishness and conservativeness of Canada Rugby. And their lack of proactiveness in trying to promote and spread the game outside the small club existing fans has been a world away from the more proactive efforts the USA are making to improve both on and off the field.

Add to that they seem to be happily patting the backs of the IRB all the time and not strong enough to get themselves better deals. It did not surprise me in the least that it was Canada Rugby's quotes that the IRB used to make it seem like it was a good thing that they were playing in a location as bizarre and inconvenient as North Wales last November. Contrast that to the USA who made no secret of their unhappiness of the games being moved from the sensible London location.

Canada seems to just pass the game on by generation from the Brits who first played it there, and seem to be happy with that just keeping in their own circle. USA are doing better work. Japan are doing better work in improving the situation for the senior team, but they are too equally just as bad in trying to spread the game.

Canada Rugby need to change it's act otherwise a more innovatively run USA team, better funded Japan team and better supported Georgian team could overtake.

 

[usausa]

I'd say Canada is improving both on and off the field. It's not like Canada have never had a good TV broadcast, just a couple of years ago they had a televised match against the US. While I don't know the situation in Canada completely, it is probably safe to say their national competitions are better run and organized. Here in the US, we can't run a senior or collegiate comp without team(s) pulling out and making their own competition. About the only thing the US does well is funding the senior teams, but that's not due to their diligence. They just take all the dues paid to the union from players/coaches like me to fund their teams , not through any major sponsorships. USA Rugby may run a better senior 15s and 7s program, but the way the club and collegiate game is run is an absolute sham. In terms of getting listened to by the IRB for venues to play at, maybe we should beat better teams to be listened to by the old guard.

 

[jb12780]

One thing I noticed when watching yesterday was that the US was getting overrun in the scrums. Can that be attributed to a bad USA pack or a good Canadian one?

 

[norcalbuff]

I think this is on the pipeline, CFL budgets aren't large but I think the teams realize it will cut down on injuries long term and make the league more attractive to imports and players that are on the cusp of being CFL starters or NFL practice squad and bench warmers.

Not disagreeing with the stream it sucked and all of them have(the Gerogia one last year and ARC had OK camera work but lousy commentary). I'm more upset that the game wasn't picked up by a TV network though, surely TSN up here and ESPN(put it on the Ocho possibly?) down there could have split some costs and put a pretty basic broadcast of the game up. I have heard the RWCQ's will be on TV and that each country will be simulcasting the other's home broadcast(as happened in 2011 and the US home RWCQ in 2009.) This is a start, and Canada's game against Ireland will be televised(possibly the Japan one as well I'm hearing will be picked up by Sportsnet World or TSN).

Edit: Also why should the IRB threaten to cut off our funding? Since when was USA Rugby run perfectly?

USA Rugby isn't run perfectly but it is a much more professional organization than Rugby Canada and it's apparent at every turn.

And when USA Rugby was run poorly and unprofessionally, the IRB stepped in and instituted Nigel Melville as the new CEO and Kevin Roberts as the Chairman.

Pretty sure Universal Sports will be broadcasting our home tests including the RWCQs this summer. Their parent company is NBC Sports.

 

[norcalbuff]

The fact that the stream is usually crap doesn't mean that RC is amateur. The problems that Canadian rugby faces are more related to a low population in a vast country that plays rugby in both summer and winter (provincial union politics). To suggest a national union is amateur over something like a live stream doesn't look at the things that actually matter- like how that team performs.

In any case, the display in Edmonton today was no different than the usual 4-5 thousand that usually turn up for a test match against Canada in Glendale.

This isn't the only amateur thing about RC. Just the latest.

And where is Glendale being used this year? The goal is going to be to use bigger stadiums and try to draw bigger crowds. The only reason a small venue like Charleston is being used this summer is because we moved the RWCQ to accommodate Canada and no longer had access to the stadium in Atlanta we were going to use. But if you look at the rest of the venues being used that I posted, there is no comparison.

Anyway, go on defending your amateur union if you want. Not our problem if you want to be left behind, but the amateurism is annoying when I want to watch my national team play.

 

[norcalbuff]

How did Liam Og get on when he came on for the States. Great to see him step up. Always felt he could've broke in to Munster as his performances for Young Munster were top notch but fair play he took a gamble relocating to USA and really delighted for him. He's had issues with injury too

He went OK from what I could tell. Almost scored a try near the end but got dragged down just short of the line and we failed to score.

 

[norcalbuff]

Yep the Men's 7's team finishing only 2 points behind the USA in it's first core season in the better part of a decade while the States has been a core team that entire time, and winning five of the last six against the States in the XV's code(only loss coming from a game played in 45C heat in Carolina) I think speaks volumes, also moving up to 13th in the world rankings on Monday when this result gets factored in. As well the Women's 7's team is one of the best in the world and the Women's XV's side is always capable of causing the bigger nations fits.

We also run a fairly succesful regional competition(the CRC has no American equivalent, the domestic comp there is more equivalent to the CDI and top Ontario comps). We have also sold out Langford for the ARC and won the right to host again.

Rugby Canada does all this on a budget of 8-10 million Canadian dollars(depending on year RWC years tend to be higher). Of which IRB contributes a little under 2 million.

Edit: And Yes the streams suck huge monkey balls, I have been one of the harshest critics of them, they are in fact I would say totally unacceptable, that being said, I hardly think this equates to Canadian rugby dropping to permantly in the bottom four of the RWC or us being amateurs.

We may have been a core team for longer but you guys have had a residency program for longer and the two teams finished off the season going in very different directions.

 

[norcalbuff]

One thing I noticed when watching yesterday was that the US was getting overrun in the scrums. Can that be attributed to a bad USA pack or a good Canadian one?

We suck in the scrum historically. Yesterday was actually an improvement on how we have performed in the scrum in the past against Canada. Canada doesn't have a great scrum by international standards but it's still much, much better than ours.

The one thing that is nice is that our props are still considered young by prop standards. Props don't usually hit their peak until their late 20s so there is still time and Pittman and Fry are pretty handy in the rest of their games.

 

[usausa]

USA Rugby isn't run perfectly but it is a much more professional organization than Rugby Canada and it's apparent at every turn.

And when USA Rugby was run poorly and unprofessionally, the IRB stepped in and instituted Nigel Melville as the new CEO and Kevin Roberts as the Chairman.

Pretty sure Universal Sports will be broadcasting our home tests including the RWCQs this summer. Their parent company is NBC Sports.

I don't get them. While they are NBC, you need the right cable provider to get them. And I'm sorry norcalbuff, but I have to disagree that USA Rugby is more professional at every turn than Canada, USA Rugby seems to be run with the sole mission of the national teams, they don't do s&*# anywhere else. One of those support the 1% screw the 99%.

 

[norcalbuff]

The sooner they are able to turn the national team into a profit maker instead of a money loser, and that day is not far off, the sooner they'll be able to pump that money back into grassroots as is done in Tier 1 countries.

 

[CDN_Rugby]

Anyway, go on defending your amateur union if you want. Not our problem if you want to be left behind, but the amateurism is annoying when I want to watch my national team play.

More like watching your team get beaten... pretty much every time they play Canada. You do know that Canada is 12-2 against the U.S. since 2004, right? Some professional outfit you have there... Get back to me when the Eagles beat Canada more often than twice every nine years.

Unlike the "professional" U.S. program, Canada at least has a decent domestic summer competition in the CRC and a winter league in the CDI Premiership that are both superior to anything the U.S. can put forward. Literally every school in English Canada has a rugby program too, doubt that's true in the U.S.

But yeah, a poor webcast makes up for the fact that the richest country in the world with no shortage of amazing athletes and a perfect climate for the sport can only beat a bunch of fur trappers and lumberjacks twice a decade. Sounds like you guys are the ones with the "amateur" program.

Bravo...

 

[norcalbuff]

More like watching your team get beaten... pretty much every time they play Canada. You do know that Canada is 12-2 against the U.S. since 2004, right? Some professional outfit you have there... Get back to me when the Eagles beat Canada more often than twice every nine years.

Unlike the "professional" U.S. program, Canada at least has a decent domestic summer competition in the CRC and a winter league in the CDI Premiership that are both superior to anything the U.S. can put forward. Literally every school in English Canada has a rugby program too, doubt that's true in the U.S.

But yeah, a poor webcast makes up for the fact that the richest country in the world with no shortage of amazing athletes and a perfect climate for the sport can only beat a bunch of fur trappers and lumberjacks twice a decade. Sounds like you guys are the ones with the "amateur" program.

Bravo...

The answer to why you have historically beaten us is in your post. Rugby has been more popular in Canada historically than in the US, especially at the younger ages. Youth rugby below the U15 level basically didn't exist until about 5 years ago in the US, even in relative rugby hotbeds like Sacramento. That has little to do with the current professionalism, or lack thereof, of Rugby Canada and more to do with sporting culture.

Again, there is a reason all of these rumors of pro leagues in North America have little mention of Canada and it does not have to do with the passion of fans like you but rather the utter ineptitude of Rugby Canada.

 

[CDN_Rugby]

The answer to why you have historically beaten us is in your post. Rugby has been more popular in Canada historically than in the US, especially at the younger ages. Youth rugby below the U15 level basically didn't exist until about 5 years ago in the US, even in relative rugby hotbeds like Sacramento. That has little to do with the current professionalism, or lack thereof, of Rugby Canada and more to do with sporting culture.

Again, there is a reason all of these rumors of pro leagues in North America have little mention of Canada and it does not have to do with the passion of fans like you but rather the utter ineptitude of Rugby Canada.

It's not related to the "utter ineptitude" of Rugby Canada at all. Rumours are, of course, just rumours. But any talk of a professional league in North America has usually discussed the possibility of franchises being located in Canada too. However, in the unlikelihood of professional rugby coming to North America, how do you reconcile the fact that Canada has a working and improving regional competition which appears to be more effective than the system in the US?

The US has more potential as a rugby nation, but potential doesn't equal professional. Amateur? Not at all.

 

[jb12780]

Also, the fact that Universal Sports, a channel owned by NBC is carrying the games is absurd. Why not put the games on NBC Sports Network, where the College 7's and World Series 7's are? NBCSN is available more widely than Universal Sports and also is in HD.

 

[LittleGuy]

No, but the shoddiness is a good summary of the amateurishness and conservativeness of Canada Rugby. And their lack of proactiveness in trying to promote and spread the game outside the small club existing fans has been a world away from the more proactive efforts the USA are making to improve both on and off the field.

Add to that they seem to be happily patting the backs of the IRB all the time and not strong enough to get themselves better deals. It did not surprise me in the least that it was Canada Rugby's quotes that the IRB used to make it seem like it was a good thing that they were playing in a location as bizarre and inconvenient as North Wales last November. Contrast that to the USA who made no secret of their unhappiness of the games being moved from the sensible London location.

Canada seems to just pass the game on by generation from the Brits who first played it there, and seem to be happy with that just keeping in their own circle. USA are doing better work. Japan are doing better work in improving the situation for the senior team, but they are too equally just as bad in trying to spread the game.

Canada Rugby need to change it's act otherwise a more innovatively run USA team, better funded Japan team and better supported Georgian team could overtake.

That's a fair point and a correct one, I've literally begged Rugby Canada on the facebook fan page to advertise more to casual sports fans rather than just expats and those already in the rugby community. In fact even for the Ireland test I'm saddened to see them essentially begging Irish expat/descendant fans to come out(it's not like soccer here either where immigrants cheer for their country of origin), in rugby they generally cheer for Canada.

When games are shown on TV they generally draw decent ratings, ahead of club soccer and close to Basketball which is considered to be in the Big 4 of team sports in North America. I do think some positive changes are coming in, the coaching staff have certainly improved, Kieran Crowley, Clive Griffiths, Geraint John and others(partiuclarly on the women's side) have all made the program better. Mike Chu has been a revelation in the High Performance role as well.

The set up is still top heavy and their have been problems at the Richmond Hill offices, just a couple of months ago a communications director quit after only 6 weeks, BCRugbyNews reported this was due to a personality conflict with a higher up member. The inter provincial parochialism is one of the biggest issues I have though it seems the BCRU is back on board with the CRC this season which is good news, and the growth of the game in the Prairies and Ontario is easy to see by the Blues and Wolf Pack improving each year.

I'd like to see Rugby Canada try and reach out to some neglected communities eg. Francophone Quebec and immigrant communities but this is easier said than done, even the National Ice Hockey federations are having trouble drawing immigrants to Ice Hockey and shows that it's also a societal issue for Canada(some of our recent influxes of immigrants have been somewhat self isolating). While the antipathy between French and English has existed here for donkey's years and the game of rugby was seen as an elitist anglo activity in much of French Quebec. Still I have to agree with you that an attempt at least has to be made and a test at Saputo stadium(especially against France) would be a great start. There is an active Montreal club scene and getting some Francophone players involved could help spread the game.