Can Premiership beat Top 14? In economic terms

[William18]

Of course it happens in Super Rugby; mistakes and errors happen in all sports. However, many Top 14 matches seem to be such a grind. Maybe I'm just not getting to see the good ones, as we do not get all of the matches. This last round we only got USAP v Toulon, and last week we only got Clermont v Castres and Bayonne v Paris. As for your remark about muddy pitches, well that is probably true. When Super Rugby started back in the 1990's, SANZAR set a minimum standard for quality of pitches, and every franchise was given about five years upgrade their standards. Just about every pitch used by NZ Elite teams has been totally relaid, with new drainage systems and a sand base resulting in no muddy pitches any more, not even in the depths of the wettest winter. The last two weeks have seen very high rainfall in NZ, yet you wouldn't know it watching the Chiefs v Crusaders and Hurricanes v Blues matches. I cant remember the last time I saw a Super Rugby match played in the mud. Many of the pitches used for elite rugby in France (and elsewhere) appear to be sub-standard. Perhaps if some of the Top 14 clubs invested some of their money in upgrading their pitches instead of buying players, the situation might improve.

So much this. New Zealand is not a tropical island but we never have muddy pitches here any more. Wellington has 48 inches of rain a year whereas London receives only 23, Manchester 33, Newcastle 26, Paris 25, Toulouse 25, Dublin 28, Edinburgh 28 and Cardiff 43. Westpac Stadium is used for 40+ events a year, often twice in the same weekend and has never had any problems with the turf. It amazes me the situation at the Millennium Stadium and in Paris. Never of those two places should continue to be allowed to hold international rugby union games with such poor quality pitches. If that is the quality of international pitches then I would hate to see what club grounds are like.

 

[ratsapprentice]

This obviously applies less to the SOF and Italy - but we play in significantly colder weather than the SH does.
So even if it rains less on average here (which it does)... that **** just sits there.

The average temperature in London for the Premiership season is 11.4o​C.
The average temperature in Edinburgh for the Pro12 season is 9.8o​C.
The average temperature in Auckland for the SR season is 20o​C.
The average temperature in Wellington for the SR season is 16.8o​C.


Our averages are also bumped up due to the length of the season.
If we take the average from the middle 7 months of our season (in line with the 7 month SR season) then the averages are:

London: 9.5o​C.
Edinburgh: 8.4o​C.

 

[FrenchFan]

Top 14 wins hands down when it comes to money/economics, but I have to ask, with all that money and all those top level players playing in it, how come the quality of the rugby in Top 14 is so crap? Even the Pro12 has more exciting and better quality of play than Top 14. Watching USAP v Toulon on TV yesterday. I don't think I've seen so many dropped passes, knock ons and missed tackles.

I saw the game and you can't describe it as a grind. Yes some of the Top14 games are a grind because its a big forward battle. But that's always been the case. With a total score of 77 pts and 7 tries sorry but in my books that doesn't qualify as "a grind". Both teams made mistakes but that comes with the territory when they are willing to play high risk rugby which Perpignan had to play as they did put it up to Toulon.

 

[j'nuh]

Why no one is trying to move to summer rugby is beyond me.

1. Gives a more attractive/marketable brand of rugby.
2. Spectators are more likely to go out to watch rugby on a summer day, than a wintry one. Also, amateurs, especially kids, are more likely to go out and play in summer than in winter conditions.
3. Stop competing with football. A lot of football fans might consider following a team in the football off-season if we moved to summer. They may even use this as a stepping stone to convert, as more and more people get frustrated with the way the modern top-flight football leagues are going.
4. Easier to travel further distances in summer than in winter.
5. Improves ball-handling skills which are needed more for summer rugby. Gives us a better chance of competing with the SH.
6. Firmer surfaces, helpful for keeping scrums stable.

I can't think of any downsides?

 

[McTallshort]

Hard pitches cause more injuries particularly at grass roots level.

 

[Big Ewis]

I saw the game and you can't describe it as a grind. Yes some of the Top14 games are a grind because its a big forward battle. But that's always been the case. With a total score of 77 pts and 7 tries sorry but in my books that doesn't qualify as "a grind". Both teams made mistakes but that comes with the territory when they are willing to play high risk rugby which Perpignan had to play as they did put it up to Toulon.

actually the first half was brilliant. The second half Perpignan really didn't focus as they should've, and it's too bad as that day they could've beaten Toulon if not for silly inattention temporarily. Some beautiful tries that game.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Hard pitches cause more injuries particularly at grass roots level.

Move professional rugby to the summer - in line with the SH.

Keep the traditional amateur/school seasons as they are.

This means that there is no conflict between playing for your amateur side and watching the top flight.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

What is the wealthiest Top 14 owners net worth?

In England it is Bristol's owner Stephen Lansdown worth around £892,008,000.00.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Saracens' major stakeholder is worth $7.9 billion.

 

[McTallshort]

Move professional rugby to the summer - in line with the SH.

Keep the traditional amateur/school seasons as they are.

This means that there is no conflict between playing for your amateur side and watching the top flight.

That could work

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Saracens' major stakeholder is worth $7.9 billion.

Damn is that the company?

Do French clubs release profit /Losses like the English clubs have?

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.forbes.com/profile/johann-rupert/

 

[gaston le gaff]

Damn is that the company?

Do French clubs release profit /Losses like the English clubs have?

What do you think, Clubs are run as a business, they pay taxes, social charges etc and whats more by law, a rugby club can not be in the red, if they are and are caught they will be heavily fined and relegated to 1/2 divisions below eg Montauban a few seasons back!!!!!!!

 

[g6mcg]

Move professional rugby to the summer - in line with the SH.

Keep the traditional amateur/school seasons as they are.

This means that there is no conflict between playing for your amateur side and watching the top flight.

Presumably the clash with amateur rugby is a big reason for low attendances?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Presumably the clash with amateur rugby is a big reason for low attendances?

Certainly doesn't help.
Two of the games I really look forward to in a season are Saints and Tigers at home. I had to miss both this season as we decided to trial playing games on a Saturday instead of a Friday.
From next season we're playing all our games on a Saturday afternoon which means I'll pretty much every game.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

We play all of our games on a Saturday afternoon so I don't even go and watch any premiership games any more. I wish they would change that but the rfu said they won't move the season.

So everyone who plays rugby can't go and watch a live match? What a loss of revenue and crowd numbers!

 

[jonny24]

Would hard pitches even be an issue in England? We play all summer here in Ontario.


I think a shift to summer rugby across the northern hemisphere would benefit not only english rugby but world rugby as a whole.

 

[goodNumber10]

I also get the impression that subscription tv has a much larger customer base than something like Sky does.

And since the only rugby on terrestrial tv in England is the six nations (and last year the tour to Argentina) - not very many people have access to club rugby.
I think there are something like 6 million SkySports subscribers and less than 1 million BT sport subscribers.

So currently less than 2% of the population of England has access to the premiership on tv.

Most people receive their TV via the internet now anyway, and as a reulst get Canal+ with it.

IT infrastructure is better in france - it's a good 3-4 yars ahead in terms of delivery to homes and it's been that way for a while - when i arrived in 2007 i had Internet TV piped straight in via fibre for no extra charge and canal+ as standard for about â'¬30 per month - that's changed a bit over time and who you go with but everyone provides it as standard so people get sport for low cost in France.

Also everyone gets the same, you don't have peopel competing and as a result it's less fractured for the punter so subscriptionsto canal + pretty much cover everything wheras you have BT & Sky competing.

 

[goodNumber10]

Move professional rugby to the summer - in line with the SH.

Keep the traditional amateur/school seasons as they are.

This means that there is no conflict between playing for your amateur side and watching the top flight.

In France all amateur Rugby from Fed 2 down is played on Sunday - bar a few club du samdei leagues in a couple fo the laregr cities. Top 14 is friday and Saturday for the most part so there is no conflict in watching and playing.

Saturday morning Rugby Ecole, Saturday afternoon top14, sunday Federal Rugby.

gaston, feel free to correct me if i've got that wrong.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I play rugby Saturday and watch/trains my little brother on Sundays which then depends on kick-off time he still is junior so finish at around 12/1, but that time goes up as he will go into the Colts in a couple of seasons.

Family where season tickets holders till I turned 16 then I started playing some senior rugby and my little brother was still playing Sundays it's meant I have only been able to watch like 5/6 games a season parents and brother still go on to games Saturdays but not season tickets holders anymore, I love watching rugby but I prefer to play it unless I get an long term injury like last season where I watch around 20 games live.

Suppose summer rugby could mean more late afternoon games 5/6 pm games, would be able to watch more games then.