England 2024/25

[Flankers' paradise]

Much more sanguine that I ever was on this. The rules are what they are and if they've been properly complied with and the player's contributed well to the domestic game then that's OK. (Especially if they wear 12).

Would prefer otherwise, but that's the world we live in.

JVR will be 29 when he becomes eligible. It can't be right to hold him for 2 years rather than spend that time developing our young 12's who may be around for longer

 

[Lé Ddanno]

JVR will be 29 when he becomes eligible. It can't be right to hold him for 2 years rather than spend that time developing our young 12's who may be around for longer

I've said this elsewhere but he's still eligible for SA and he's not good enough to get a call up from them, so why should we pick him?. We should be trying to produce some more 12s and nurturing the ones that are coming through, as you suggest.

We had this issue with 7s not so long ago (Wood, Robshaw, Haskell,) and Neil Back appears to have sorted that out, so we can do it again.

 

[Scotty]

I've said this elsewhere but he's still eligible for SA and he's not good enough to get a call up from them, so why should we pick him?. We should be trying to produce some more 12s and nurturing the ones that are coming through, as you suggest.

We had this issue with 7s not so long ago (Wood, Robshaw, Haskell,) and Neil Back appears to have sorted that out, so we can do it again.

I'm mean at 29 he should be in his prime and the rules are what they are so I won't be annoyed if he's picked, if he is the best option, we are lacking at 12s, we need to pick the best and if that's him then that's that. Let the young 12s develop at their clubs and win the place when ready England isn't a development league

Don't get me wrong I'd rather an English 12 but BJVR is a class player and eligible and will have a few years in him.

I'm hoping a young 12 steps up and makes it a moot point but if he gives us the best chance of winning then so be it.

 

[BrokenWing]

We had this issue with 7s not so long ago (Wood, Robshaw, Haskell,) and Neil Back appears to have sorted that out, so we can do it again.

Someone made the point that this could be why we now don't have any 12s and lots of back row.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm mean at 29 he should be in his prime and the rules are what they are so I won't be annoyed if he's picked, if he is the best option, we are lacking at 12s, we need to pick the best and if that's him then that's that. Let the young 12s develop at their clubs and win the place when ready England isn't a development league

Don't get me wrong I'd rather an English 12 but BJVR is a class player and eligible and will have a few years in him.

I'm hoping a young 12 steps up and makes it a moot point but if he gives us the best chance of winning then so be it.

Spot on.

 

[Geordie]

Well Skivington has been really touting Seb Atkinson for England. He also mentioned the fact he's different from the current international trend of having a big 12...

He might not make this 6n but if he continues his development I would really like to see him getting some game time at 12 on the Argentina tour in the summer.

 

[Which Tyler]

Well Skivington has been really touting Seb Atkinson for England. He also mentioned the fact he's different from the current international trend of having a big 12...

He might not make this 6n but if he continues his development I would really like to see him getting some game time at 12 on the Argentina tour in the summer.

He absolutely should.
Looks comfortably the best English 12 at the moment.

But selecting him would need a coach capable of thinking beyond "who looks like they can do what Manu did a decade ago, whether or not they actually can do it"

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Well Skivington has been really touting Seb Atkinson for England. He also mentioned the fact he's different from the current international trend of having a big 12...

He might not make this 6n but if he continues his development I would really like to see him getting some game time at 12 on the Argentina tour in the summer.

How big is Seb Atkinson? He doesn't look small.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Two "A" team snubbings have me concerned about how Borthwick views him - not like his form has come out of nowhere, he looked really promising at Worcester and has continued to consistently grow from there

Still very young though, see what the next A game brings

How big is Seb Atkinson? He doesn't look small.

6ft2, 15st5
Not particularly big but not small - same height and half a stone heavier than Ringrose

 

[Geordie]

How big is Seb Atkinson? He doesn't look small.

Yeah about 6'2 and 15.5...

Skivington has likened him to Stuart Abbott who was a strong and very good 12 despite not being the biggest....and thats probably a fair comparison...punches above his weight.
I'd certainly prefer to begin his development and hopefully Hartleys over Van Rensburg....

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Eight things England must fix to have a shot at winning Six Nations

CHRIS FOY: England have had a difficult autumn and a disappointing year, so there is a sense of urgency now about sparking a vital revival. So, what needs to be done in the next two months?

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Yeah about 6'2 and 15.5...

Skivington has likened him to Stuart Abbott who was a strong and very good 12 despite not being the biggest....and thats probably a fair comparison...punches above his weight.
I'd certainly prefer to begin his development and hopefully Hartleys over Van Rensburg....

Van Rensburg is probably not eligible according to a line in this.

Inside centre is a problem for England, but Gloucester’s Seb Atkinson could be the solution

Sturdy 22-year-old is a hefty hitter who exudes poise on the ball – Steve Borthwick should take note

www.telegraph.co.uk

'Benhard Janse van Rensburg is the Premiership's pre-eminent centre, and would theoretically qualify on residency in 2026. However, he seems to be scuppered by virtue of a single appearance for South Africa Under-20 in 2016.'

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Geordie]

Why does the under 20 cap matter? Surely if he hasnt played for any international side since then he falls under the new rules and can play for another international side? Or am i not getting it right?

2026 though means that Atkinson and Hartley should be well bedded in to the England set up and hes not required.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why does the under 20 cap matter? Surely if he hasnt played for any international side since then he falls under the new rules and can play for another international side? Or am i not getting it right?

There was a period where sides could use their u20s as their capture side, but it only captured the player if you played against another u20s side that was a capture side
It doesn't apply to many sides and even fewer players
Steven Shingler had the same issue when wanting to swap from Wales to Scotland, and it's also blocked Vermuelen, at chiefs, from declaring for England - but didn't stop Duhan swapping to Scotland

BjvR can't do a nation swap if he was captured by South Africa because he has no blood tie to England, only (future) residency

 

[Geordie]

Thanks for clearing that up.