Bayonne Biiarritz Fusion

[FrenchFan]

Should they not go for a Basque regional team? The club culture here is just too strong. We saw that again with the passionate if not over the top response from the Bayonne supporters against the fusion. Would a regional team not work better? It's not in the culture I know but it would diffuse the many Bayonne v Biarritz issues relating to the 2 clubs and they would not have to merge. The 2 clubs would remain separate entities and they would pick the best players from each club into a regional team...

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i do not think anyone in France is disputing the fact that 2 basques teams are good for the TOP 14 and rugby in General as i said previously if Bayone go down will the support be the same for both teams and then there is also the finacial side of things when was the last time that a possibility of BO and Bayonne in the Pro D2 a long time ago i reckon, but if Bayonne do stay up and there is a good chance then i'm sure the fusion will never happen. but i do understand the passion that both supporters have for their teams i have been several times and know exactly what its all about. I think the only reason that this fusion idea keeps popping up is that most and i think as usual it's the press lighting the fires, they are all saying both teams will not survive if they are both in the Pro D2.
You only have to look what the press wrote yesterday, Jake White Montpellier's coach is apply for the job as Frances new coach, when in fact he was with Shaun Sowerby who was at Marcoussis to recieve his French coaching diplomas. nothing more nothing less so dont be surprised if they get plenty of coverage when there is maybe nothing there to cover, a liitle like Midol if you don't know, invent it, and if its wrong apologise the following week!!!!! I deal with the press all the time and they are a nightmare.!!!

you're right about the Press. They've been stirring it a lot. Not one Basque supporter I spoke to wants the fusion.

 

[Sapinou]

Should they not go for a Basque regional team? The club culture here is just too strong. We saw that again with the passionate if not over the top response from the Bayonne supporters against the fusion. Would a regional team not work better? It's not in the culture I know but it would diffuse the many Bayonne v Biarritz issues relating to the 2 clubs and they would not have to merge. The 2 clubs would remain separate entities and they would pick the best players from each club into a regional team...

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you're right about the Press. They've been stirring it a lot. Not one Basque supporter I spoke to wants the fusion.

If you go this way, then we'll have to make a regional team with Toulouse, Castres, Colomiers, Montauban, Albi. Another with Carcassonne Narbonne USAP Beziers Montpellier. Another With LOU Grenoble Oyonnax Bourgouin. In fact a closed league with régional teams. And a domestic one where we still find our beloved clubs.

 

[FrenchFan]

If you go this way, then we'll have to make a regional team with Toulouse, Castres, Colomiers, Montauban, Albi. Another with Carcassonne Narbonne USAP Beziers Montpellier. Another With LOU Grenoble Oyonnax Bourgouin. In fact a closed league with régional teams. And a domestic one where we still find our beloved clubs.

No of course not. There is no interest for regional teams. It's been tried before and no one wants it. It was just an idea in the context of Biarritz and Bayonne as a possible workaround.

 

[gaston le gaff]

I think lets just see what happens on Sat and who goes down, then the press will answer all the questions for us whether we are right or wrong!!!! i think what everyone is trying to say is there should be at least one Basque team in the TOP 14 not two in the Pro D2 and has it has not happened yet PATIENCE!!!!!!

 

[gaston le gaff]

<cite>The Saga Continues
Serge Blanco interviewed today the interview is in Rugbyrama and makes suggestions that talks could be reopened
the first line is beautiful translated .........."they kicked us while we were down Serge and Manu Merin (Bayonne Presie) in an atmosphere or ambiance of burnt dead bodies, i was atttacked but i have tough skin!!!!! pure poetry from Serge amazed he is not performing in Cannes this weeek


On nous a mis des coups de pied, à Manu Mérin et moi, dans une atmosphère de cadavres brûlés. J'ai été attaqué, mais j'ai peut-être la carapace plus dure"</cite>, a-t-il rappelé. Biarritz, plus gros budget de Pro D2 cette saison à égalité avec Perpignan (11,07 millions d'euros), a terminé 7e de son championnat et ne pas participe aux demi-finales d'accession en Top

 

[Tony Manx]

<cite>The Saga Continues
Serge Blanco interviewed today the interview is in Rugbyrama and makes suggestions that talks could be reopened
the first line is beautiful translated .........."they kicked us while we were down Serge and Manu Merin (Bayonne Presie) in an atmosphere or ambiance of burnt dead bodies, i was atttacked but i have tough skin!!!!! pure poetry from Serge amazed he is not performing in Cannes this weeek


On nous a mis des coups de pied, à Manu Mérin et moi, dans une atmosphère de cadavres brûlés. J'ai été attaqué, mais j'ai peut-être la carapace plus dure"</cite>, a-t-il rappelé. Biarritz, plus gros budget de Pro D2 cette saison à égalité avec Perpignan (11,07 millions d'euros), a terminé 7e de son championnat et ne pas participe aux demi-finales d'accession en Top

Sorry, missed this one!!

I would not be surprised to see the talks re-open but would really want them to get on with it once and for all, negotiate as much as they can, come up with at least one proposal or maybe more than one, have the supporters and club members vote on it and let the whole thing be over one way or another!!

For me, the best sort of proposals would be something along the line of a merger of the professional sides (and the Espoirs?) into one new club whilst the actual clubs remain in existence as amateur clubs, perhaps assisted financially, to provide young players to the professional one?

The final of the championship of the Crabos will take place between Biarritz Olympique and Montpellier on Sunday, May 31, at Saint Sulpice sur Leze (31) at 15:30.

Let us win something while the club still exists!!!!

 

[gaston le gaff]

The final of the championship of the Crabos will take place between Biarritz Olympique and Montpellier on Sunday, May 31, at Saint Sulpice sur Leze (31) at 15:30.

hold your horses there Tony you are playing Montpellier and we have already the Girlies who are for the 3rd time in succession French Champions we could do with another ***le to confort the lack of amition and effortr in this seasons Top 14.

On the subject of the fusion i think the only possible solution is to have a Basque club or region which does not include the names of Bayonne or Biarritz, the 2 original clubs become amateur and play in the lower divisions as amateurs and the newly formed club starts either Fed 1 or ProD2 it is obvious they cann not survive as two separate pro clubs and time will bind and unite the 2 clans of supporters if results start to flow.

 

[Tony Manx]

Think what we are saying about the future of a Basque team is the same and do agree about the name thing!

 

[Sapinou]

This is the mail I sent to AFC Wimbledon and FC United of Manchester:


Hello,

My name is Julien S, I'm from Bayonne in France. I'm a supporter of the Aviron Bayonnais Rugby Pro, a 110 year old institution in our town 3 times France champions. Players won our first ***le in 1913 and some of them died in WW1.
Yesterday, our chairman announced the project to merge with Biarritz Olympique, our archrivals with no other goal than making money to the shareholders companies and saving Serge Blanco's (BO chairman) presidential bid to the federation: he's the sportside reaper of his team, and also the financial one.
So I'm coming to ask you how did you do to build this wonderful club? Were did you start? Your experience is welcome to help us to build an alternative to this shameful betrayal.

I'm looking forward to hearing from you,

Julien S

 

[TRF_Cymro]

What an absolutely crazy idea ... well in one way!

 

[Tony Manx]

This is the mail I sent to AFC Wimbledon and FC United of Manchester:


Hello,

My name is Julien S, I'm from Bayonne in France. I'm a supporter of the Aviron Bayonnais Rugby Pro, a 110 year old institution in our town 3 times France champions. Players won our first ***le in 1913 and some of them died in WW1.
Yesterday, our chairman announced the project to merge with Biarritz Olympique, our archrivals with no other goal than making money to the shareholders companies and saving Serge Blanco's (BO chairman) presidential bid to the federation: he's the sportside reaper of his team, and also the financial one.
So I'm coming to ask you how did you do to build this wonderful club? Were did you start? Your experience is welcome to help us to build an alternative to this shameful betrayal.

I'm looking forward to hearing from you,

Julien S

Hi Julien S,

If those were the sole motives (enrichment of the shareholders and Budda's bid for Presidency) I would be so far against this that I would give up rugby supporting!

The real reason for the proposal of a merger must be, not only the retention of top class rugby in this area, but the creation of a professional team to better represent the Basque Country with a management of competent business and rugby experience, and with the necessary finance, provided by corporate and other non participating sponsors, to be able to compete at the highest level.

To date, Biarritz, and to a lesser degree, Bayonne have shown, over a number of years, incompetence in terms of both business and rugby management together with a loyalty to sponsors that was not commercially driven to such an extent that other and higher sponsorship opportunities were turned down. This has resulted in relegation for both teams, after years of battling it, and the potential bankruptcy of Biarritz and to a lesser extent (only through my ignorance of their financial position) Bayonne.

Interesting you are looking at FC United and AFC Wimbledon.....the former was set up as a result of their supporters refusing to accept the Glaziers take over of MU and are competing in a much smaller way in a very much bigger CITY, not town, than either of Bayonne or Biarritz. The latter was as a result of their supporters not accepting that Wimbledon FC wanted financial security by moving to a new stadium in a place miles away from Wimbledon, where in fact the move created much less competition for support or finance, and were renamed MK Dons!!

As I have said before, I would prefer the talks to proceed urgently to hopefully produce a proposal, or a set of them, which interested parties could look at and determine, once and for all, whether they meet the ultimate aim of a competitive team in the region, rather than allowing fanatacism of supporters through their actions, kill off top class rugby in this area for the vast majority of true rugby supporters, through their abject tribalism and blindness to the challenges of the future!

 

[Tony Manx]

You may well get your wishes, Sapinou, and Bayonne become the only club......maybe good for Bayonne (although I doubt it as does not address their problems) but not good for the area!!

http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/pro-d...payes-au-mois-d-avril._sto4757918/story.shtml

"Biarritz are facing such serious financial difficulties, that a large majority of the workforce have not been paid their full salary.

RMC Sport said that the players had received only 50% of their April salary before the match against Dax in early May. The balance was to be paid in mid-May, which was not the case.

Reportedly, BOPB are to face a serious financial hole in the order of 1.8 to 2 million euros.

An appearance before the DNACG is expected soon and and sanctions against the Basque club are not excluded."

Edit - Sanctions available are fines, points deductions, relegation down one or more divisions!

 

[Tony Manx]

From Rubgrama.....please excuse google translate but you can get the picture!! Hurrah but budget just not big enough and stuck with Cap Gemini as overall sponsor!!

Bayonne-Biarritz: Fusion is launched, we must now convince the fan base

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By Denis GIBERT - Yesterday at 12:22
The merger between Bayonne and Biarritz accelerates. Now that the two departments have tied the project, it is now for them to sell the idea to the greatest number.

Earlier this week, the first to see the project were to formalize the administrative services of the two clubs. The main message was to reassure them about the pursuit of their mission. Tuesday evening, Serge Blanco presented the project outline to shareholders of BOPB and representatives of supporters. The Bayonne side, Manu Merin should do the same on Thursday morning at the club's Supervisory Board to be held in the morning. Meanwhile, on Wednesday in Southwest, the directions of the two clubs published their costs an advertorial explaining to the public the outline of the future union Bayonne-Biarritz.

Tuesday night just outside the Aguilera Stadium, only Anthony, one of the representatives of a group of supporter BOPB agreed to talk to the presentation by Serge Blanco earlier: "There will be two teams in Federal 3 Biarritz and Bayonne, then a pro team in D2 with 15 million budget and which in turn would play Aguilera and Jean Dauger. No recruitment other than what has been announced. There will be the strength of this year some departures. "

At its output, Serge Blanco did not want to speak on the subject, however admitting that he worked "for three months" on the new entity. When are we will know a little more? "We already know us," quipped the president of BOPB before leaving. On condition of anonymity, a shareholder has kindly detail the Serge Blanco advertisements: "The parity regarding the holding of matches, parity regarding administrative services, a co-presidency with Nicolas Brusque for Biarritz, Cap Gemini as main sponsor, â'¬ 3.5 million accrued to compensate the contracted players who will not be kept, the vote of shareholders will be held on June 20 ".

 

[gaston le gaff]

There is more and its now getting very complicated. Apparently when Alain Afflelou and Phillipe Rugggieri sold their shares, 48% of the SASP FOR 1.7million €'s to the SA Lugumka a company of 21 mebres of whom Manuel Merin the present President of Bayonne is one of them, they still have not paid the sellers, so legally the fusion cannot happen until the fore said sellers are paid in full, as legally Afflelou and Ruggieri are still 48% holders of Bayonne, this was posted on Rugbyrame yesterday, there is smoke and fire, so there must be a little truth in this somewhere. Bayoone cannot hold their vote on the fusion, as legally the 2 shareholders were not invited to the meeting and as they are still owners until payment is recieved, there is a no vote situation, they hold the reins until payment is made.

 

[JJFlash]

If Basque rugby supporters want Top14 rugby than they are going to have to accept that a BO/AB merger is obligatory.
I can't see either Bayonne or Biarritz returning to the Top14 for the season 2015/2016. The competition is going to be too strong
with the likes of USAP, Stade montois and Albi being the main challengers for promotion.
Sure, the supporters of Bayonne particularly, have a strong "esprit de clocher", which is fine as long as they will be content to watch ProD2 rugby for the next few years,
and they could even drop into Fédéral 1 as Dax, another famous club have just done.
Let's hope common sense prevails and the two clubs can talk constructively to ensure that a Basque team returns to the Top14 as soon as possible.

 

[gaston le gaff]

The problem is common sense will never prevail, this is all about 2 proud clubs staying 2 proud clubs, I completely agree that the fusion is a must for the Basque country but will it happen, firstly they have to sort out all the legal crap that keeps turning up (mentioned above) and then get everybody onboard but that task is massive and then Serge has to be kept happy which will never be easy, it may well happen but i think its all about time and patience

 

[Tony Manx]

The problem is common sense will never prevail, this is all about 2 proud clubs staying 2 proud clubs, I completely agree that the fusion is a must for the Basque country but will it happen, firstly they have to sort out all the legal crap that keeps turning up (mentioned above) and then get everybody onboard but that task is massive and then Serge has to be kept happy which will never be easy, it may well happen but i think its all about time and patience

Cannot disagree with any of that but:

1. I am not sure that they have time with the finances of both teams in quite some turmoil,

2. If a fusion keeps Blanco involved, it cannot work as he is the most hated man in the Basque country, if you are not a Biarritz man, and also has led BO to ruin!

3. The idea that they alternate in the use of each stadium is absolutely nonsensical and has not been thought through.....for instance, how does a season ticket holder get the same seat in two different venues?

4. Cap Gemini as the main sponsor surely would not be acceptable to the Bayonnaise as Kampf is so closely linked to Blanco and they, reportedly, prevented Orange and some Kuwaitis putting money into BO over recent seasons to protect their own interests it would appear!

The whole basis of what I understand of the proposals is so flawed that it will not work BUT surely it only has to be agreed between the owners of the two clubs and it becomes fact....the supporters have no financial interest enough to have a vote and the members of the clubs will still have thjose clubs but reveerting to amateur status? Whether they turn up to games is another matter........

Incidentally, BO have started to advertise their season ticket prices for the 2015/16 season and these go on sale shortly.......is this for the RPB professional team (Rugby Pay Basque) or BO as it is at the present? !!!!

 

[Tony Manx]

Biarritz council to vote on paying BOPB 1.5 million euro!!

Under a partnership agreement of November 2005, the council agreed to pay the club 300k per annum to assist with finance for new stand.

The 1.5 million represents the last five years up front as, according to the Mayor, the club will be relegated to Federale 3 on financial grounds unless they receive this money!

There is opposition in the council to this on proper basis that it is using taxpayers money to support a private company!!

Last year relegation was only avoided by support from the Council and the loss for 2013/14 was reported at 1.2 million!!

Meanwhile, the Mayor of Bayonne is against the merger until he sees more of the details and will want Bayonne to end up in virtual control!!

The supporters and members of AB are due to vote on 25th and can only presume it is in principle as the details released are too sketchy!!

 

[gaston le gaff]

Keep us posted but it only looks like one possible way out of all this and it has to be fusion, with both teams having an amateur /semi pro in the Federale divisions where ever they may start, which will then give the Basque region a chance to find the TOP 14 in the next 2/3 seasons as i presume they will start as a fusion in the Pro D2. I think that Blanco has to go, no longer can his sort of directorship be an advantage to both Bo and Bayonne if either!!!! as BO are in one hell of a mess financially and have to kept being bailed out by the local council.

 

[Tony Manx]

Agreed!