Australia vs England - 3 Tests - June 2016

[ratsapprentice]

You're right ....... He doesn't HAVE TO BE moved to 6 ............. I just believe that looking at Itoje's style of play, his build, the number of quality English Locks, the lack of decent English Flankers etc etc, it would benefit England to move him to 6

I completely disagree on those two.

He's far too long limbed for a flanker - lock build all day, every day.
I don't think we have a paucity of good flankers, in fact we have potentially very good first choice flankers, they just haven't been brought to the fore yet.
Our strength at lock is more to do with having loads of good "second choice" players, rather than a massive array of world class ones.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't see why his height (and he's not exactly a midget) should be an issue at lock - is it really useful in the scrum? He's already fantastic in the lineout.

Also, with the Krutoje dominance of the lineout does this mean we can properly look at bringing Ewers in at 6 over the summer? He has no lineout game, but with Krutoje so good, and then another option with whoever is at 7, we should surely be able to accommodate two none jumpers in Ewers and Binny?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Also, with the Krutoje dominance of the lineout does this mean we can properly look at bringing Ewers in at 6 over the summer? He has no lineout game, but with Krutoje so good, and then another option with whoever is at 7, we should surely be able to accommodate two none jumpers in Ewers and Binny?

How many catches did Robshaw/Haskell make in the entire tournament?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I think with the whole Itoje whether he's a lock or 6; it's a matter of having him in the team. For me Launchbury when fit is world class. As Kruis has cemented his place at 5 for Australia, then England need to have both Itoje and Launchbury in the pack. I just don't see England moving to the next level with Robshaw at 6. No-one saw Pocock as an 8, and before the Pooper it was either him or Hooper at 7. Then came Australia v NZ last year and Chieka tried the Pooper and it was phenomenal. Breakdown and line out is so key in today's international game and I think having Launchbury, Kruis and Itoje at 4,5 and 6 will make England pack stronger in these two key areas.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How many catches did Robshaw/Haskell make in the entire tournament?

Making me do your stats legwork? For shame!

According to the Six Nation website's stats:
Robshaw 8 and Haskell 2

 

[Peat]

England should just do what the Stormers did with the Brumbies and pin them in their own half and work off of mistakes and the odd turn over ball. Folau can't play a territorial kicking game as good as he is elsewhere and if you don't have the ball Pocock can't steal it. Like the Stormers vs the Brumbies England should be able to put in a dominant set piece display vs Aussie as well.

Problem is our territorial kicking game and line chase isn't so hot either. There's a thin line between pinning the Aussies back and giving Folau the ball day long and I really don't trust England to stay on the right side of that line.


Re Itoje - in the 6N just passed, given the players used, I thought we'd have been better off playing Itoje at 6.

I don't know who Jones will favour for Australia, or what players we'll have available, but given that I'm very confident that Itoje would be a class act at blindside at international level, I wouldn't be against him playing there, depending on who got shut out/let in.

But I don't think it's going to happen, so there we go.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I don't think he would be bad there by any means, but the situation in which I'd be happy about him playing there is also the one where I'm unhappy that someone else has been shut out.

 

[French Tiger]

For the only first test, i would like to see this team :

1.M.Vunipola
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Itoje
5.Kruis
6.Clifford
7.Kvesic
8.B.Vunipola
9.Simpson
10.Farrell
11.May
12.Tuilagi
13.Joseph
14.Watson
15.Brown

Subs : Mullan, George, Brookes, Launchbury, Haskell, B.Youngs, Slade, Daly

It's great to have a group of players as good and talented. It'll be difficult to make choices about Jones. I just have a hard time with our front row and the quality of our scrum.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Yup pretty much how I feel

I don't think he would be bad there by any means, but the situation in which I'd be happy about him playing there is also the one where I'm unhappy that someone else has been shut out.

Thus far we've had a good indication that Maro won't be found wanting as an international lock. England have just won the 6 nations (and a GS) playing 2 6's and an 8. Despite perceived shortcomings in my view Haskell and Robshaw can be mighty proud of their performances. They were deployed to perform a role (smash, get up smash, smash ad infinitum) and did it well. That's 2 sixes you'd need to be pretty clear that Maro was better than and that's before Herman Munster (Ewers) gets a look in. If it's solely to accommodate Launchbury I can see the argument, but he's not long back from a significant injury and hasn't demonstrated the form to oust Maro. Plus given you need a starter and a back up, why mess about too much?

Lawes in my view has not developed as we'd have wished. Such a shame but he's a destructive weapon and that's all. His carrying is woefully substandard and he simply doesn't offer enough anywhere else. At best he gets a look in at 6 but again he's down the pecking order.

If it were me I pick players in their best positions and let them fight it out. Mashing stuff up to accommodate best players compromises too much for me. I've just watched a whole 6n of that with Ford and Farrell...............

 

[Aristodemus]

Whilst I know this will not be popular we have to account for Hughes being available.

As for Maro, having someone at lock who can offer everything else that he does around the park is a tremendous bonus and would only enhance whatever back row we select. It is of most benefit to England that he stays at lock imo. I would pick a back row of Hughes, Kvesic/Clifford/Underhill and Binny.

 

[Peat]

I don't think he would be bad there by any means, but the situation in which I'd be happy about him playing there is also the one where I'm unhappy that someone else has been shut out.

Ewers, I presume?

Whilst I know this will not be popular we have to account for Hughes being available.

As for Maro, having someone at lock who can offer everything else that he does around the park is a tremendous bonus and would only enhance whatever back row we select. It is of most benefit to England that he stays at lock imo. I would pick a back row of Hughes, Kvesic/Clifford/Underhill and Binny.

Hughes isn't available this summer.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Ewers, I presume?

Or Kvesic.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Any reason why Jones doesn't like Fraser? Is it just because of his injury record?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Because he's not as good as Kvesic and thus far he hasn't even given him a chance.

 

[Peat]

Or Kvesic.

Of course. Was thinking blindside only.

If Jones wants to push those guys, rock on. But as it stands, I'm not sure an Itoje in the back row would be at their expense, because I'm not sure they'd be getting close regardless.

Just as long as Haskshaw is broken up asap.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Because he's not as good as Kvesic and thus far he hasn't even given him a chance.

Both players at 100% I think Fraser is better than Kvesic.
Obviously that could obviously be skewed by Fraser playing in far better packs.
Also the likelihood of Fraser being at 100% fitness for more than 2 or 3 games in a row is near zero.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

And yet it looks like Jones, in the short term at least, sees Clifford as ahead of both Kvesic and Fraser at 7.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hasn't Jones said he sees Clifford as an 8 going forwards?
I don't think it means a massive amount ATM (as he said he sees Watson as a 15, but hasn't used him there) but will be interesting to see how it pans out, especially over this summer with Beaumont out and Hughes not eligible. Will he take Morgan to Australia?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Hasn't Jones said he sees Clifford as an 8 going forwards?
I don't think it means a massive amount ATM (as he said he sees Watson as a 15, but hasn't used him there) but will be interesting to see how it pans out, especially over this summer with Beaumont out and Hughes not eligible. Will he take Morgan to Australia?

Maybe, but can't see him dislodging Binny any time soon.

You make a good point about Watson at 15 in the long term though. This 6Ns I definitely felt it's now time to move away from Brown at full back. I think I lost faith during the France game when he failed to fix the defender and release Watson on the left for a certain try. As good as he is under the high ball and beating the first defender, I've just question his awareness and decision making at the highest level.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Hasn't Jones said he sees Clifford as an 8 going forwards?
I don't think it means a massive amount ATM (as he said he sees Watson as a 15, but hasn't used him there) but will be interesting to see how it pans out, especially over this summer with Beaumont out and Hughes not eligible. Will he take Morgan to Australia?

Wouldn't moan much about that. Morgan was playing ok prior to his injury. I feel 6, 7 and 12 is where we are weakest in terms of proven international talent and thus the area I want to see the biggest shakeup.