Australia vs England (2nd Test) - 09/07/22

[Derpus]

To be fair I think the first four years of Jones' stint were almost as successful as you could possibly ask for, one game off in fact, despite one very bad 6n.

The second four years are looking like they could ve about as bad as you could expect, there's time and talent to turn it around but I equally little reason to hold your breath.

Is there a coach that has had continued success with one team for longer than four years? Coaching teams need to be rotated like anything else.

Anyway you guys will probably pump us this match and all this angst will be forgotten.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Is there a coach that has had continued success with one team for longer than four years? Coaching teams need to be rotated like anything else.

Anyway you guys will probably pump us this match and all this angst will be forgotten.

That second paragraph better not be directed at me...

Agree with the first part, unless they just have superior players like NZ did and Saracens did/do at prem level, 4-5 years seems to be it. Gatland did it but had peaks and troughs throughout.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Caught a bit of of squad news conference with EJ and Courtney Lawes. It's all 'keep the faith, we're building and developing for the world cup' bla bla bla.

Pig sick of this narrative. Don't know about anyone else but I'd prefer England to win as many games as possible.

As someone else said there's been plenty of fixtures to look at new players and combinations.

Woodward having one his regular blasts at Jones on exactly this and the selection merry go round.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Just read that in the Times that in his 12 tests Smith will have played with 4 scrum halves and 8 centre partnerships. Guess those include subs, but still.

Also says that Freeman will be the 9th wing to start for England 'since the summer' [2021 presumably].

No wonder we can't attack our way out of a wet paper bag.

 

[Rinkadink]

Who are the 8 centres (including 13s?) Smith has played with?

Guess the 9s are Youngs, Randall, Care, van Poortvliet?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

By my count
Quirke - constantly injured this season
Youngs - personal reasons
Care
Randall
JVP

Centre partnerships prob didn't help with Manu, Slade and Farrell injuries

Also are they including Canada and USA games in that?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Same people complaining about those numbers would be complaining if we hadn't trialled the new players, tbf

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Same people complaining about those numbers would be complaining if we hadn't trialled the new players, tbf

It's the balance though, whether the trials were logical and whether they were given a proper chance - players and combinations take time to settle. One of the things that drives people mad is that some players get indulged with chance after chance while others don't (which also raises questions about the judgement of selecting them in the first place).

 

[Grizwald]

Same people complaining about those numbers would be complaining if we hadn't trialled the new players, tbf

Problem is the way I see it is during the Jones tenure a lot of arm chair fans have been crying out to try form prem players, accused of sticking with favourites etc in a lot of cases when such players have came in many have been binned although injury has also played a part.

Listening to Jones it sounds like he's going to revert to a more simple game plan, talking about punching holes etc. If that's the way he saw the game, he had what is now his starters on the bench last week and didn't use them. Used have a really impactful bench , and EJ wasn't scared to hook someone if it wasn't going to plan a la Burrell in 2016.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Jones (and Gatland previously ) have been pretty guilty of having some positions as merry go round of players which are used and discarded seemingly every game but then there's double standards over their favourites who are seemingly immune to being dropped regardless of the form they are in or even if other players might be a better option.

 

[Reiser99]

Same people complaining about those numbers would be complaining if we hadn't trialled the new players, tbf

Issue as Old Hooker suggested is the way he's gone about it. Some positions he just throws **** at the wall to see what sticks, then others he sticks with out of form players at the expense of developing depth, then changes it last minute.

Take the example of Dunn. How many minutes do you think he averages per cap? According to one site I found, it's 6 minutes per cap.

Basically I'm quite happy to criticise Jones for both not changing the team and changing too much because since 2019 he's often got the balance of both completely wrong.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Only two backs on the England bench!

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Only two backs on the England bench!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Only two backs on the England bench!

One a specialist 9 hauled out of a retirement home. The other had to have a letter from his parents to take him out of junior school.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

One a specialist 9 hauled out of a retirement home. The other had to have a letter from his parents to take him out of junior school.

What could possibly go wrong?

If England get an injury at centre who is going to slot in? Move Freeman to centre and bring Arrundell onto the wing?

 

[Geordie]

Is there a coach that has had continued success with one team for longer than four years? Coaching teams need to be rotated like anything else.

Anyway you guys will probably pump us this match and all this angst will be forgotten.

Hansen with NZ? Two world cups?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If England get an injury at centre who is going to slot in? Move Freeman to centre and bring Arrundell onto the wing?

Nowell, probably

 

[spartan32]

Loads of chat about RWC cycle and again brought up in the recent conference. Building up the squad, period of change etc. so what do the fans really want? If you could chose would you see England lose out in everything, but then lift another WC, or win games; 6 nations etc, but not left the WC? It's the later for me, and frankly o don't see how you lift a WC if you can't find a win anywhere else!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why does it have to be either or?

I think it's a bit of a dead cat anyway, and reminds me of the Joe Schmidt apologists saying he's just keeping his cards close to his chest for the RWC

Our game plan is shocking and has been for ages - playing personnel has very little to do with that (beyond: EJ shoehorning players in to try and replicate prime Billy/prime Manu etc., but that's still a gameplan issue) - EJ saying "Judge me on the RWC" is just kicking the can down the road

 

[MikeTheNative]

Obviously England did very well to get to the last WC final but if everything is aimed at lifting the WC then they should be a bit disappointed to get that well beaten by SA in the final. He can only survive on that final run for so long.