Australia vs England (2nd Test) - 09/07/22

[Seven]

Woodward having one his regular blasts at Jones on exactly this and the selection merry go round.

I wish he'd bugger off as well.... trying to remain relevant years after....

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Why does it have to be either or?

I think it's a bit of a dead cat anyway, and reminds me of the Joe Schmidt apologists saying he's just keeping his cards close to his chest for the RWC

Our game plan is shocking and has been for ages - playing personnel has very little to do with that (beyond: EJ shoehorning players in to try and replicate prime Billy/prime Manu etc., but that's still a gameplan issue) - EJ saying "Judge me on the RWC" is just kicking the can down the road

Schmidt had about three bad international windows in his 6 years. I think having faith in him was far more reasonable.

 

[Rinkadink]

Loads of chat about RWC cycle and again brought up in the recent conference. Building up the squad, period of change etc.

Okay so if we are only in a period of change now (even with a bunch of old guard) why were the results also so poor prior to this period of change?

 

[BrokenWing]

Thing with the building excuse, is that surely we should see some sort of discernible result of said building.

All well and good throwing a few new bricks on the pile, but you've had three years so where the bloody hell's my extension?

 

[Scotty]

Just watched squide rugby on 'why England will win the world cup'

The last part says something interesting,
In 1998 Brumbies under EJ had their worst season, the following season they won super rugby ***le

Aus had terrible autumn tour in 2002 beating only italy before getting the the world cup final.

Japan were losing to usa and canada a year out from the world cup

And England came 5th in the 6N before getting to the world cup final in 2019

It seems this is what EJ does, tries things again and again because his only focus in the world cup, does not care about losing as long as he gets the big win it seems.

Now id rather have a consistant winning team than put all the eggs in the WC basket but it is interesting that this happens alot for EJ.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Just watched squide rugby on 'why England will win the world cup'

The last part says something interesting,
In 1998 Brumbies under EJ had their worst season, the following season they won super rugby ***le

Aus had terrible autumn tour in 2002 beating only italy before getting the the world cup final.

Japan were losing to usa and canada a year out from the world cup

And England came 5th in the 6N before getting to the world cup final in 2019

It seems this is what EJ does, tries things again and again because his only focus in the world cup, does not care about losing as long as he gets the big win it seems.

Now id rather have a consistant winning team than put all the eggs in the WC basket but it is interesting that this happens alot for EJ.

Interesting. I've got a feeling England will do well too. In fact this WC is really nicely poised. Great for the game that it looks like we're going in with France as favourites. Australias trajectory is looking good, an Ireland that will surely get to the semis or further, SA strong as always and England who you'll always back to get to the final 4 as well. I also fancy Fiji to be a bit of a dark horse this year which would be great for neutrals/new comers to the sport even if it is at the expense of Wales.

 

[Scotty]

Just watched squide rugby on 'why England will win the world cup'

The last part says something interesting,
In 1998 Brumbies under EJ had their worst season, the following season they won super rugby ***le

Aus had terrible autumn tour in 2002 beating only italy before getting the the world cup final.

Japan were losing to usa and canada a year out from the world cup

And England came 5th in the 6N before getting to the world cup final in 2019

It seems this is what EJ does, tries things again and again because his only focus in the world cup, does not care about losing as long as he gets the big win it seems.

Now id rather have a consistant winning team than put all the eggs in the WC basket but it is interesting that this happens alot for EJ.

Australia v England: Courtney Lawes calls for patience as England develop - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62091854

Leading on from my last we have Lawes taking about being patient and saying they are building but it takes time and they will make mistakes along the way.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Think it's been known for a while that EJ's teams take a nosedive the year before what he deems to be their biggest goal.

The worry for me is that before England's nose dive in 2018, the team had won 2 Six Nations ***les and at one point, 18 games on the trot. I don't know what the exact win % was but it was very high.

This time around, England haven't looked particularly promising in 20, 21, or now, 22. There hasn't been a nosedive this time around so much as a gradual capitulation.

 

[Eleutherarch]

Knockout rugby is just different. Jones is a turnaround specialist minoring in knockout rugby. He couldn't give a toss about friendlies (and absolutely no pre or post-match interview contradicts this). To him, they are inconsequential other than as a means to evaluate Eddie's esoterica.

The RWC has eluded him for decades. He has failed at the final hurdle twice. He doesn't want to be like pre-2011 NZ, dominating tests but failing to capitalise in the biggest tournament. And with the draw, it's a golden opportunity and probably his last.

Make no mistake, he doesn't care about England. But the goal is aligned.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

England will win the rugby World Cup final the real question is by how much

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

England who you'll always back to get to the final 4 as well.

Exactly this. Without sounding arrogant / English, QF is a bare minimum expectation, anything worse is total cock up. SF is good, but not a wow for us. If we're putting all our eggs in the RWC basket that can only be justified by winning it. Anything less, and arguably even winning, just isn't worth the dross that's preceded it. And it's no skin off Jones' nose, he won't have to deal with the fallout as he's off regardless.

I guess one of the things is that NZ and Fra in particular are capable of purple patches in games where they kill it off. We just don't seem to have the firepower, accuracy or intent to do that.

 

[Reiser99]

Exactly this. Without sounding arrogant / English, QF is a bare minimum expectation, anything worse is total cock up. SF is good, but not a wow for us. If we're putting all our eggs in the RWC basket that can only be justified by winning it. Anything less, and arguably even winning, just isn't worth the dross that's preceded it. And it's no skin off Jones' nose, he won't have to deal with the fallout as he's off regardless.

I guess one of the things is that NZ and Fra in particular are capable of purple patches in games where they kill it off. We just don't seem to have the firepower, accuracy or intent to do that.

Disagree, SF is top 4 in the world. At this stage I think that would be an excellent result for us. QF would be disappointing barring losing to the eventual winners.

If you meant in terms of resources that we should reach the final when then that's a different case.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Disagree, SF is top 4 in the world. At this stage I think that would be an excellent result for us. QF would be disappointing barring losing to the eventual winners.

If you meant in terms of resources that we should reach the final when then that's a different case.

I was talking generally based on player base / resources.

SF is top 4 in the world but more often than not those 4 can be permed from 5, maybe 6, countries. So while good, I don't see it as a particularly special achievement. Where we are right now we'd have to buck up our ideas to achieve even that.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

England, France, New Zealand, and South Africa (Australia is debatable but they've fallen) should be expecting to make semi-finals if not finals every World Cup. Obviously that isn't possible but I wouldn't call them delusional for having those expectations.

 

[Eleutherarch]

England, France, New Zealand, and South Africa (Australia is debatable but they've fallen) should be expecting to make semi-finals if not finals every World Cup. Obviously that isn't possible but I wouldn't call them delusional for having those expectations.

Not in '23. "That" side of the competition is terrifying.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Not in '23. "That" side of the competition is terrifying.

yeah I'm thinking more generally

guaranteed to be one side going home early. Unfortunate for them but good for the neutral fans.

 

[Derpus]

Just watched squide rugby on 'why England will win the world cup'

The last part says something interesting,
In 1998 Brumbies under EJ had their worst season, the following season they won super rugby ***le

Aus had terrible autumn tour in 2002 beating only italy before getting the the world cup final.

Japan were losing to usa and canada a year out from the world cup

And England came 5th in the 6N before getting to the world cup final in 2019

It seems this is what EJ does, tries things again and again because his only focus in the world cup, does not care about losing as long as he gets the big win it seems.

Now id rather have a consistant winning team than put all the eggs in the WC basket but it is interesting that this happens alot for EJ.

He doesn't get the big win though. Failed with England and Aus.

I suppose you can give him SA, but he was only an assistant.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Only 8 coaches have ever got the big win though

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Only 8 coaches have ever got the big win though

I guess the question would be, is there any similarity in their previous 4 years (or previous coaching tenure) before the WC win that you could draw any conclusions from.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Jack Willis out and will Joseph in

Confirms I guess Marchant is out out