Australia vs England (2nd Test) - 09/07/22

[Welsh Exile]

Why is it always about the WC?

Why cant we just focus on each upcoming tournament or set of games. Play our strongest side and then evolve the side as players come through.

Im 90% with you on this and hate the "WC cycle" chat all the time. Having said that I think 1 year out from a WC is ok to start tinkering.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Im 90% with you on this and hate the "WC cycle" chat all the time. Having said that I think 1 year out from a WC is ok to start tinkering.

Yeah, exactly that - this close to the RWC everything is built towards that, if not for the trying to win the trophy itself just because it's a strange rugby series in that you've a fixed number of players, a very tight game schedule etc.
Need to have your squad sorted and settled so that a 5 day turnaround doesn't **** you because you've not bothered to blood a 2nd choice and your first choice played the full 80 the previous game and his calves are tight

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mean targeting the RWC is massive imo.

How many can tell you the winner of the 2004 6N's? Now how many people can tell you who won the RWC in 2003?

Reality is once you win the RWC you really notice that nothing compares to it really.

Granted winning competitions is the best way to create a winning mentality also lets you find a way that is actually working.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Yeah, exactly that - this close to the RWC everything is built towards that, if not for the trying to win the trophy itself just because it's a strange rugby series in that you've a fixed number of players, a very tight game schedule etc.
Need to have your squad sorted and settled so that a 5 day turnaround doesn't **** you because you've not bothered to blood a 2nd choice and your first choice played the full 80 the previous game and his calves are tight

No need to do that if you do what Pivac does and just drafts players in like Lydiate who played in the 2011 WC. Settled as you like mate.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Interesting. I'd say Marchant is much easier to see the benefits of than Slade, personally.

Marchant is much stronger and more athletic, although both are good in defence. He also beats Slade for speed and in the air. The advantages Slade brings - a better rugby brain, kicking, playmaking - don't benefit England enormously due to the two fly-half system.

Slade's a bit of a rare beast, a playmaker who is best at 13. But you can't have alleged playmakers at 10, 12 and 13.

Marchant and Slade have different strengths and Marchant is likely to work better with Smith / Faz. Slade looked very good for the 5 minutes he was alongside Manu and given the right set up he's a great option.

 

[Crash Hamster]

Why is it always about the WC?

Why cant we just focus on each upcoming tournament or set of games. Play our strongest side and then evolve the side as players come through.

That's crazy talk.

 

[Geordie]

Im 90% with you on this and hate the "WC cycle" chat all the time. Having said that I think 1 year out from a WC is ok to start tinkering.

Yes a year out you can certainly be looking at it, but Eddies clearly not been remotely interested in the past few 6 nations etc...

Is it that hes so focused on the WC he just sacrificed them all...

Sorry but...focus on winning each 6n, summer tour, Autumn set, then yes a year out fine start to tweak your team for a "World Cup " battle but i just hear too often...its all about the world cup....

No its bloody not.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

But aiming for the WC is about building a style and culture and can be done over 4 years. In fact I'd say it's easier to do that rather than spin your wheels for 3 years then suddenly try and turn things around.

So the argument of building for the WC is BS in my eyes.

 

[Derpus]

Is the ideal preparation for the RWC losing a whole bunch...?

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Is the ideal preparation for the RWC losing a whole bunch...?

That's how South Africa did it, 2016-18

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Is the ideal preparation for the RWC losing a whole bunch...?

True it doesn't usually work for Australia

 

[Scotty]

So im happy with the team in general(just seen it)

There is 1 change id make and that is drop Ludlam and bring in Marchant. Marchant is a real threat and good defender and doesnt deserve to be benched never mind dropped but ok want to try porter in the centres whilst also still trying Smith Faz, i kid of get this but not really as we need to win this game. Screw 6 2 and put Marchant at 23.

Bringing in Freeman is a good call, i thought he was average until i actually watched him on the last few games of the prem and he is better than i thought and deserves his spot over Big Joe.

JVP is interesting but not unexpected knowing EJ, if he shits the bed then we have experienced care to bring on....if porter does it the we bring on 1 cap (7 mins 2 - 3 defenders beaten 2 clean breaks and 1 try all in 2 touches ) Arundell who is untested at any level and no real centre cover anywer except Nowell? Who isnt a centre...

On Arundell he does need some real game to show if he can cope we all aspects of this level

 

[Seven]

Sorry but...focus on winning each 6n, summer tour, Autumn set, then yes a year out fine start to tweak your team for a "World Cup " battle but i just hear too often...its all about the world cup....

No its bloody not.

I agree. I don't think it does the game of rugby any good in terms of both credibility, and of expanding the game and encouraging youngsters to participate. Recent seasons of England internationals have been dull and frustrating. In terms of rugby entertainment the women's internationals can be a lot more entertaining in terms of running rugby played, and the premiership often serves up far more of an exciting spectacle. I get the importance of the World Cup, of course, but there's a lot more to it IMO.

 

[Crash Hamster]

"If you want a Dupont aged 24, you have to take a van Poortvliet aged 19.

How good would England centres look with JvP and Marcus Smith at 9 and 10?" Me, 21st March last year.

I guess I'm going to find out on Saturday, albeit, those centres, though...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The RWC is the icing on the cake of a 4 year cycle. It's the pinnacle, but shouldn't be targeted to the detriment of everything else. After all some other countries are quite keen on winning too and the ball's a funny shape.

This time round, we seem to have put a load of eggs in the RWC basket - that's Jones with RFU backing. That's fine……if we win it.

What really grates is that most RWC winning sides have been experienced, settled and with the winning habit. (There are very specific reasons why the 19 Boks didn't fit that mould). We're nowhere near any of those.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'd really question what Eddie has actually built in the last 3 years if he was aiming only for the WC? We haven't built a culture or style, we haven't built a more experienced team (that only been forced by injury). We seem to have just focussed on winning each tournament but done it really really badly and failed in most cases.

It's not like after the WC he added a load of youngsters into the squad, I fact he ignored the best chance to do so (with Sarries being relegated).

Really don't think this 'building for a WC argument' holds any ground at all.

 

[BPM]

That might be the best post you've ever written . I can't disagree with a word you've said there.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Just as a quick comparison.

2019 RWC Squad:

LHP: Mako Vunipola, Joe Marler, Ellis Genge
HK: Jamie George, Luke Cowan-Dickie, Jack Singleton
THP: Dan Cole, Kyle Sinckler
LK: Maro Itoje, George Kruis, Courtney Lawes, Joe Launchbury
FL: Tom Curry, Sam Underhill, Lewis Ludlam
#8: Billy Vunipola, Mark Wilson

SH: Ben Youngs, Willi Heinz
FH: Owen Farrell, George Ford
CE: Manu Tuilagi, Jonathan Joseph, Henry Slade, Piers Francis
WG: Jonny May, Joe Cokanasiga, Jack Nowell, Ruaridh McConnochie
FB: Elliot Daly, Anthony Watson

2022 Australia Tour Squad:

LHP: Mako Vunipola, Bevan Rodd, Ellis Genge
HK: Jamie George, Luke Cowan-Dickie, Jack Walker
THP: Joe Heyes, Will Stuart, Patrick Schickerling
LK: Maro Itoje, Charlie Ewels, Ollie Chessum, Nick Isiekwe, Jonny Hill
FL: Courtney Lawes, Tom Curry, Sam Underhill, Lewis Ludlam, Jack Willis
#8: Billy Vunipola

SH: Danny Care, Jack van Poortvliet, Harry Randall
FH: Marcus Smith
CE: Owen Farrell, Guy Porter, Joe Marchant, Fraser Dingwall, Will Joseph
WG: Jonny May, Joe Cokanasiga, Jack Nowell, Tommy Freeman, Henry Arundell
FB: Freddie Steward, George Furbank

As a squad, it's very experimental. Probably too experimental a year out from a World Cup. By selection, really not that much has changed. Very much feels like what England should have been doing in 2020.

 

[Jakedood]

I've been one to give Eddie some leeway over the years, particularly as in Rugby it takes very small margins and movements to be the difference in tackling behind the gain line and a line break... little moments of deception etc, such as the Barrett dummy of a garryowen before grubbering last week... it's the little details, but I do genuinely think EJ has until the end of this tour to show some form of cohesive attack, he has his preferred 10-12 combo there, a fantastic full back so the spine of the side is there
His back row is quality, although I definitely expected more of Lawes than I saw last week
Australia will be better this week, and England need the same, partially if only to see the effect confidence boosting could have on this team. Frreman interests me, and I really reaaly liked JVP, if he brings that speed of ball for 50-60 mins this week, i think the backline could look a lot more potent, these split seconds matter.
At the end of the day, we all just want to see some quality rugby being played

 

[spartan32]

I'd really question what Eddie has actually built in the last 3 years if he was aiming only for the WC? We haven't built a culture or style, we haven't built a more experienced team (that only been forced by injury). We seem to have just focussed on winning each tournament but done it really really badly and failed in most cases.

It's not like after the WC he added a load of youngsters into the squad, I fact he ignored the best chance to do so (with Sarries being relegated).

Really don't think this 'building for a WC argument' holds any ground at all.

Spot on fella. This WC cycle gumff is just smokescreen and excuses. A year out and we are just blooding lads, have no settled backs set up at all, and aren't even clear on the skipper. You play rugby games to win them, end of.
As for the team on Saturday. I think Marchants been dealt a tough hand. Would have been more interested to have seen Faz dropped to the bench and Marchand playing with another actual centre option. But hey ho! We will probably go on to win this game, which will reinforce EJs belief I his "system" (whatever the hell that is) and we'll be stuck in this marsh of madness until France comes around!!