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Argentina to play in 2012 4N

Super Rugby needs expansion. Argentina can get a franchise going, base their players there, least then they have a another viable option other than Top 14. Maybe even have a 2-tier system of franchises, with Chile, Brazil etc in that tier.

Ideally, i'd like to see 4 more franchises, from Fiji, Samoa, Japan and a Pacific Islands XV (Tonga and the rest). Like the next level up after Pacific Nations Cup.
 
At the next expansion i assume we will move to 18 teams, probably with either a 6 or 8 team final series. Does Super rugby have 3 more areas to expand into? Obviously there is the Southern Kings/Spears to play in the South African Conference, and the Argentinean team to play out of either the Australian or NZ conference, but what about the 18th team? NZ has the playing numbers but not the population to support another team, while the opposite is true for Aus. By the time of the next expansion, the two other regions that were looked at for the Australian team (Western Sydney and the Gold Coast) will be crowded markets, with league, soccer and afl teams already being established, making it difficult for Union to gain a supporter base.

Good to see Argentina entering the 4nations though
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Mar 7 2010, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Great news.

With Argentina finally entering an expanded Tri Nations, Italian team likely to enter the Magners League, Sevens gaining Olympic status, Russia setting up a pro competition and qualifying for the World Cup and Japan winning the rights to host the 2019 World Cup, it's been a fantastic year for rugby. Bernard Lapasset has been a revelation since replacing Syd Millar as iRB president. It's a shame previous leaders didn't have his vision for growing the game beyond the founder unions.[/b]

Here, here.

Arg is set to field a team in SA's 2nd tier Vodacom cup tournament. It is a somewhat akward arrangment but another step in the right direction. It should be up to Arg now, with some support from SANZAR and the IRB to step up with a world class local tourney or possibly join the Currie cup seeing as that is allready set to be devalued by the new format of superrugby or they could use superrugby as a substitute much like Aus are attempting.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Mar 7 2010, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Great news.

With Argentina finally entering an expanded Tri Nations, Italian team likely to enter the Magners League, Sevens gaining Olympic status, Russia setting up a pro competition and qualifying for the World Cup and Japan winning the rights to host the 2019 World Cup, it's been a fantastic year for rugby. Bernard Lapasset has been a revelation since replacing Syd Millar as iRB president. It's a shame previous leaders didn't have his vision for growing the game beyond the founder unions.[/b]

To be fair most of these projects started under Syd Millar mandate, Lapasset may be thanked for completing them but although he may have contributed when at his previous position within IRB he was definitively not alone.
 
With Argentina finally entering an expanded Tri Nations, Italian team likely to enter the Magners League, Sevens gaining Olympic status, Russia setting up a pro competition and qualifying for the World Cup and Japan winning the rights to host the 2019 World Cup, it's been a fantastic year for rugby. Bernard Lapasset has been a revelation since replacing Syd Millar as iRB president. It's a shame previous leaders didn't have his vision for growing the game beyond the founder unions.


And it's only March, :D
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gho @ Mar 8 2010, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
At the next expansion i assume we will move to 18 teams, probably with either a 6 or 8 team final series. Does Super rugby have 3 more areas to expand into? Obviously there is the Southern Kings/Spears to play in the South African Conference, and the Argentinean team to play out of either the Australian or NZ conference, but what about the 18th team? NZ has the playing numbers but not the population to support another team, while the opposite is true for Aus. By the time of the next expansion, the two other regions that were looked at for the Australian team (Western Sydney and the Gold Coast) will be crowded markets, with league, soccer and afl teams already being established, making it difficult for Union to gain a supporter base.

Good to see Argentina entering the 4nations though[/b]

Two Argentinean teams. Better then adding another Australian team imo
 
do you think argentina would be able to support two teams right away? Their would be financial and player issues to support one team, let alone two. Also the two teams would be playing out of different conferences, so their would not be many derbies, thus interest in the competition in argentina may be limited.
 
How Argentina, with IRB assistance, is preparing ahead of entry into the Quad Nations and, down the line, an expanded Super rugby competition:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/147314e2-2c3d-11...144feabdc0.html

"We had no structures at all. We could never plan ahead. Whether we were good or bad was a matter of luck."

To hear Agustín Pichot, the scrum-half who led Argentina to third place at the 2007 Rugby World Cup, explain the circumstances under which his 73 caps between 1995 and 2007 were won is to wonder even more at that achievement.

Argentina is the great outsider of the rugby world. It is Spanish-speaking in a game dominated by those whose first language is English or French; a southern-hemisphere nation whose best players are professionals in the north.

The most important rugby nation not guaranteed annual international competition, it was singled out in 1995 as the one honest country in a world that professed amateurism but paid its players. Even Argentina's "Pumas" nickname is a mistake â€" conferred on the team by a South African journalist who mistook their emblem of a jaguar.

Now, inspired by the magnificent effort in 2007, comes a chance to end its isolation: Argentina has finally been invited to join the southern hemisphere's Tri Nations giants â€" New Zealand, South Africa and Australia â€" in a championship from 2012.

It is a huge challenge. Mark Egan, head of development and performance at the International Rugby Board (IRB), says: "The Argentinian union [UAR] is terrific, but it was not organised for the professional game." The UAR earned unflattering headlines when it went into receivership in 2006. "It did that to protect itself in a dispute with a commercial partner," he says. "[But] it is now in the black and attracting good sponsors," including Visa and Standard Bank.

Pichot, who led Argentina 31 times and is now a member of the UAR's high-performance commission, says the Tri Nations invitation will transform the union's balance sheet.

"At the moment, our income is roughly $5m. To join the Tri Nations will cost $8m-$12m annually, but generate $12m-$15m, providing a surplus of perhaps $3m," he says.

The former captain's long-term hope is that this extra cash flow will underpin the creation of an Argentinian team in the Super 15 tournament â€" now contested by Australian, New Zealand and South African regional franchises â€" from 2015. "Then we could keep our players here rather than their having to go abroad to play professionally," he says.

The plan is that Argentina's entry in the Tri Nations tournament will coincide with a restructuring of the competition. Under current rules, each team plays both of the others three times between July and September. Once the competition becomes the Four Nations, each will play the others twice, in September and October.

The decision to include Argentina is, Egan points out, enlightened self-interest by the three existing members. "They are well aware of the extra interest Argentina will bring, and the variety it will add to the tournament," he says. "But it also means losing what, in the short term at least, is a more attractive home fixture and taking on an extremely tough trip to Buenos Aires."

The UAR hopes Argentina's inclusion in the Four Nations will also allow the team's players to obtain contracts with existing Super 15 franchises, including next year's newcomers, Melbourne. Such contracts would be an easier logistical fit with Four Nations commitments. Currently, 100 Argentinians play in professional leagues in Europe. Inevitably, many will still be in Europe in 2012, but Egan says: "The UAR is talking to French clubs in particular about player release and fitting club commitments together with the international programme."

At the same time, the UAR is working with the IRB on building the next generation of Argentinian rugby stars. The aim is to avoid repeating the experience of Italy, which, since entering Europe's Six Nations championship, has been unable to match the achievements of the brilliant 1990s generation that promoted its team to the big league.

The IRB is investing £1.25m ($1.95m) a year in a high-performance programme, supplemented by £400,000 a year from the UAR. Five regional centres, known as "pladars", provide 180 players aged between 17 and 23 with high-performance training programmes. These use modern gyms and include advice on training, preparation, nutrition, sports science and rehabilitation. "It is the sort of facility Argentina has not had before," says Egan.

Scholarships are provided for college-age players, and stipends of about 3,000 pesos ($750) per month for those a little older.

It is not high living, but given Argentina's traditions â€" club competitions remain strictly amateur â€" it is as much of a revolution as the facilities provided by the pladars.

The A-team, known as the Jaguars, has been funded for an enhanced international programme, including entry this year to the Vodacom Cup, South Africa's provincial competition.

"All this means that by 2012, Argentina should have a group of players aged between 21 and 26 with the international experience they need to compete against the three strongest teams in the world," says Egan.

Pichot has no doubt what is at stake. "If anything were to stop all of this happening, we would return to the chaos of the 1990s. But we are a proud nation. If we get it right, we can only get better."[/b]
Hopefully the help they are getting will prevent Argentina struggling to the same extent as Italy. The assistance they're receiving from the IRB shows how the governing body of the sport has learned from the Italian experience in the 6 Nations and also from their neglect of Romanian rugby when they showed signs of massive growth in the 1980s.
 
Argentina need as much game time as possible. They barely play three or four tests a season as it is and having a three game tour of the home nations this season was a revelation for them I'd bet.

My main concern is for those players remaining in Europe come 2012 and then being asked to play 4N rugby in September & October before playing some club rugby and then rocking straight into the Autumn Internationals. One would hope that a lot of those guys will look very hard at taking S15 contracts if only to retain their sanity let alone protect their bodies. If they played in the S15 then they'd have a loooooooooong 3 or 4 months off after the 4N and AIs before the next S15 season starts again. They could even have a holiday in South Africa playing Currie Cup rugby in the meantime.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rocket Singh @ Mar 12 2010, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Argentina need as much game time as possible. They barely play three or four tests a season as it is and having a three game tour of the home nations this season was a revelation for them I'd bet.

My main concern is for those players remaining in Europe come 2012 and then being asked to play 4N rugby in September & October before playing some club rugby and then rocking straight into the Autumn Internationals. One would hope that a lot of those guys will look very hard at taking S15 contracts if only to retain their sanity let alone protect their bodies. If they played in the S15 then they'd have a loooooooooong 3 or 4 months off after the 4N and AIs before the next S15 season starts again. They could even have a holiday in South Africa playing Currie Cup rugby in the meantime.[/b]

I don't know how Argentina and the IRB will manage the players availability. Of course they won't be problem for the players involved in Argentina or SANZAR clubs/provinces but for thos playing in Europe I don't know if there's any rule at IRB forcing the clubs to make players available outside of the International windows which are in June and November. For the 6N it's a different context since there are agreements between the Unions and the Clubs. But for example I am not sure that the Sharks would be forced to let Goode to play for England if he was called.
 
Yeah thats what I was thinking. Maybe there will be some horse trading where clubs will allow players to go for the 4N but then retain them during the Autumn Internationals?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rocket Singh @ Mar 12 2010, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Yeah thats what I was thinking. Maybe there will be some horse trading where clubs will allow players to go for the 4N but then retain them during the Autumn Internationals?[/b]

Well the agreement must be made with the UAR then, otherwise the default rule will apply and this one ensures that the players are available for AI not 4N.
 
No they have to negotiate with me. New rule. I'm representing all the Argentines now.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
i think hes kinda right AUS arn't going to lose to ARG for a few years they will when ARG get's better and is at the level of the six nations[/b]

Argentina can beat any team on their home ground, twice Argentina have nearly beaten NZ on their home ground so i don't see why they wouldn't be able to beat Australia
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Muzzy @ Mar 15 2010, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
i think hes kinda right AUS arn't going to lose to ARG for a few years they will when ARG get's better and is at the level of the six nations[/b]

Argentina can beat any team on their home ground, twice Argentina have nearly beaten NZ on their home ground so i don't see why they wouldn't be able to beat Australia
[/b][/quote]
That statement is an invalid argument. To rephrase, <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Argentina can nearly beat any team on their home ground, twice Argentina have nearly beaten NZ on their home ground so i don't see why they wouldn't be able to beat Australia[/b]
 
Still though, Argentina isn't exactly a happy hunting ground for the All Blacks, unless you consider "being wildly mauled by an Argentine puma and only just escaping with your life by shooting it in the head just before its about to tear your throat out" a happy day's hunting.

Because last time I checked, Los Pumas have run the All Blacks ragged during both of their visits.
 
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