All Blacks Watch - Countdown to June

[donmcdazzle]

Surely Ranger has to be picked ahead of Saili. Saili needs to show way, way more before he is considered. He has promise but we need a few outstanding performances before he is ushered right in. Toeava was the last guy to be picked on promise and it took him about 3 years to actually live up to it.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/sport/chiefs/8614307/Curse-of-Kahuis-shoulder-strikes-again

May not see Kahui after all...

 

[Darwin]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/sport/chiefs/8614307/Curse-of-Kahuis-shoulder-strikes-again

May not see Kahui after all...

Well I'm shocked. I never would have thought Kahui would ever get injured

If he is out that would certainly open the door for Ranger, though perhaps the selectors may feel they need more cover at 12 if Kahui is out too (bringing Saili, Crotty etc firmly into the picture). I understand that Tamiti Ellison is set to play for the Highlanders this weekend (a month ahead of schedule) - if he is fully fit and displays some form he will probably be involved in the squad (as he was seen as Nonu's primary backup at the end of last season).

Anyways, this is the 30-man squad I predict the AB's selectors will go for (depending on fitness of course...):

Props: Woodcock, Crockett, Franks*2, Afeaki
Hookers: Hore, Mealamu (with Flynn on call in case of emergency...)
Locks: Romano, B Retallick, Williams, S Whitelock
Loosies: Luatua, Messam, Cane, Read, Vito
Halfbacks: Weepu, A Smith (Kerr-Barlow on call if fit, otherwise Perenara)
First-fives: Barrett, Carter, Cruden
Mid-field: Nonu, Ellison, C Smith, B Smith,
Outside backs: Gear, Savea, Kahui (if fit, otherwise Ranger), Piutau, Dagg

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Yep, may be a simple swap for Ellison.

Kahui is my favourite player at the moment, really disappointed that he keeps getting injured. I honestly think he'd be the best centre in the world by now (indeed, his weekly performances mean he'd probably be in contention anyway) had he not been out injured so much.

 

[Larksea]

Some good stuff here, rather than pointing out the obvious I'm going to throw out a bolter.

call me crazy but if I were a selector I would be taking a seriously long look at Tom Taylor right now

Solid all round game, smart player, good defense.

the x-factor for me is that he is probably the best goal kicker in NZ right now and he can basically play any position 10, 12, 15 and I think his style of play would suit test football. And he will shine in combination with an All Black forward pack and quality to the left and right, Carter to one side and Ranger to the other I think he will shine.

Going to be a tricky year for the all blacks and it's going to see some interesting changes in the guard and tactical changes. Going to be a lot easier if there is a 90% goal kicker on the park with the range Taylor has. This year I think relying on guys like Nonu, Smith, Carter, McCaw, Woodcock, Read, Mealamu, Hore, Weepu just isn't going to work and I get this horrid feeling the Aussies would run rings around a team built around all these guys. Robbie Deans must be licking his lips at the prospect of playing the All Blacks this year, thinking that his strategy is finally going to pay off after what 6 years? of getting his arse handed to him on a plate by the All Blacks. Sacrificing all that time definitely wasn't worth it but it may finally pay dividends even if it's a couple of years later than he had hoped.

NZ have still managed to develop some good young tallent, I think they need a few more this year looking towards 2015 and I'm looking at Toby Smith, JT Allen (canes - dont make me try spell his whole name), Liam Coultman, Ardie Savea, Tom Taylor, TJP, Brad Shields and Renee Ranger (not young but demands selection as a matured player)

Gotta bring a few of these guys in. Interesting times.

 

[nickdnz]

Some good stuff here, rather than pointing out the obvious I'm going to throw out a bolter.

call me crazy but if I were a selector I would be taking a seriously long look at Tom Taylor right now

Solid all round game, smart player, good defense.

the x-factor for me is that he is probably the best goal kicker in NZ right now and he can basically play any position 10, 12, 15 and I think his style of play would suit test football. And he will shine in combination with an All Black forward pack and quality to the left and right, Carter to one side and Ranger to the other I think he will shine.

Going to be a tricky year for the all blacks and it's going to see some interesting changes in the guard and tactical changes. Going to be a lot easier if there is a 90% goal kicker on the park with the range Taylor has. This year I think relying on guys like Nonu, Smith, Carter, McCaw, Woodcock, Read, Mealamu, Hore, Weepu just isn't going to work and I get this horrid feeling the Aussies would run rings around a team built around all these guys. Robbie Deans must be licking his lips at the prospect of playing the All Blacks this year, thinking that his strategy is finally going to pay off after what 6 years? of getting his arse handed to him on a plate by the All Blacks. Sacrificing all that time definitely wasn't worth it but it may finally pay dividends even if it's a couple of years later than he had hoped.

NZ have still managed to develop some good young tallent, I think they need a few more this year looking towards 2015 and I'm looking at Toby Smith, JT Allen (canes - dont make me try spell his whole name), Liam Coultman, Ardie Savea, Tom Taylor, TJP, Brad Shields and Renee Ranger (not young but demands selection as a matured player)

Gotta bring a few of these guys in. Interesting times.

I'd have Tom Taylor no where near my All Blacks team. He can't control a game to save his life and has a below par running game. He can just kick goals - and to be honest if you have Carter or Cruden starting - they're both pretty handy kickers. We don't rely primarily on kicking, we rely on a good running game with constructive play. I think his inability to control a game has been one of the reasons the Crusaders have sucked so far, despite him kicking well.

I agree we need to start bringing in new players, but I think Taylor is just so average a player. Toby Smith has done little other than playing for Waikato - that makes me think he warrents selection. Jeffery Toomaga-Allen is good but still probably not quite ready, and isn't always starting for the Canes - got plenty of time to get better too as he's still very young. Coltman so far in my opinion just has far too poor discipline, athletically he looks capable but he does tend to habe brain explosions. I like Brad Shields quite a lot but so far Luatua has just been more impressive in my opinion (not that shields shouldn't be there or there abouts in the next year or so. Agree with Ranger providing he stays in NZ. Agree a lot with Tj Peranara - in my opinion best halfback in New Zealand.

 

[Larksea]

and yet it just seems like the crusaders win more games when he's on the field doesn't it? Not all players need to ooze x-factor, teams need guys like Taylor as much as they need guys like Ranger. And lets face it his goal kicking could be worth 3,6,9 points a game under some circumstances over even what Dan Carter can do. Just look at the Crusaders right now, Dan Carter is the best 10 in the world but when Tom Taylor is on the field he has the kicking tee. Makes a big difference when you have a guy in the side that can basically kick anything in the opposition half over even from the sidelines, remember we are building towards a world cup again and WC finals are mostly won on defense and goal kicking - IMO Tom Taylors strengths.

I'm not trying to convince the world he should be selected, just that he really should be at least in the frame. Kinda a strange year for 10's Cruden is on fire with his attacking game but looks smaller than ever and isn't kicking goals. Barrett hasn't found his feet this year and has bad problems on defense though his class is still there if you look close enough. Carter has been out of action but is an automatic selection. Anscombe has been a revelation and become one of the competitions form players but he's playing fullback! Chris Nokes has actually been very impressive though at times he gets made to look like a complete fool on defense, bit of a mixed bag really.

 

[admartian]

and yet it just seems like the crusaders win more games when he's on the field doesn't it? Not all players need to ooze x-factor, teams need guys like Taylor as much as they need guys like Ranger. And lets face it his goal kicking could be worth 3,6,9 points a game under some circumstances over even what Dan Carter can do. Just look at the Crusaders right now, Dan Carter is the best 10 in the world but when Tom Taylor is on the field he has the kicking tee. Makes a big difference when you have a guy in the side that can basically kick anything in the opposition half over even from the sidelines, remember we are building towards a world cup again and WC finals are mostly won on defense and goal kicking - IMO Tom Taylors strengths.

I'm not trying to convince the world he should be selected, just that he really should be at least in the frame. Kinda a strange year for 10's Cruden is on fire with his attacking game but looks smaller than ever and isn't kicking goals. Barrett hasn't found his feet this year and has bad problems on defense though his class is still there if you look close enough. Carter has been out of action but is an automatic selection. Anscombe has been a revelation and become one of the competitions form players but he's playing fullback! Chris Nokes has actually been very impressive though at times he gets made to look like a complete fool on defense, bit of a mixed bag really.

Out of those three I would rank 1) Noakes 2) Taylor 3) Barrett.

I agree with Nick that he'd be a liability in attack. If he improves that part of his game (doesn't have to be fl;ashy at all) then I'd be up for it. He's certainly more of a willing and adequate defender than Barrett at this point. And I'd take his 'safe' skill sets that may not necessarily win you flash games; but wouldn't lose you them/hinder you too much either. Just look at Quade; I think Barrett could be down that path should he regress/plateau in terms of rounding out his game.

I'd rather stability in an AB side over that kind of play.

 

[Larksea]

it's not like he has a non-existant attack and he can't read the game at all. Heck he has pretty good acceleration and can/does run at gaps to get over the advantage line and I think he's an above average support player.

and yeah you look at those three and of them he is clearly the best goal kicker and clearly the best defender and actually has more utility as well being a genuine mid field option, so why wouldn't he be considered?

maybe i'm talking about backs too much, I look at the AB's and my main concern is Woodcock, Mealamu and Hore these guys have been a major part of the All Blacks front row for a Looong time. And at this point none of them are filling me with confidence. Woodcock in particular. we need to find/devalop another loosehead and hooker.

just quietly another chief that should come into consideration is Tikoirotuma he seems to have established himself as the chiefs best winger, longshot but noteworthy. If only by the fact he's the #1 winger in NZ's #1 super rugby team.

 

[nickdnz]

and yet it just seems like the crusaders win more games when he's on the field doesn't it? Not all players need to ooze x-factor, teams need guys like Taylor as much as they need guys like Ranger. And lets face it his goal kicking could be worth 3,6,9 points a game under some circumstances over even what Dan Carter can do. Just look at the Crusaders right now, Dan Carter is the best 10 in the world but when Tom Taylor is on the field he has the kicking tee. Makes a big difference when you have a guy in the side that can basically kick anything in the opposition half over even from the sidelines, remember we are building towards a world cup again and WC finals are mostly won on defense and goal kicking - IMO Tom Taylors strengths.

I'm not trying to convince the world he should be selected, just that he really should be at least in the frame. Kinda a strange year for 10's Cruden is on fire with his attacking game but looks smaller than ever and isn't kicking goals. Barrett hasn't found his feet this year and has bad problems on defense though his class is still there if you look close enough. Carter has been out of action but is an automatic selection. Anscombe has been a revelation and become one of the competitions form players but he's playing fullback! Chris Nokes has actually been very impressive though at times he gets made to look like a complete fool on defense, bit of a mixed bag really.

Interesting he hasn't started a game this season at 10...

An no, it doesn't seem they win more with him on the field. It stay pretty consistent except they score less points. Carter or Cruden rarely miss three or so penalties. The issue is that you want to pick a player which stifles attack, we won't be missing the 3 points but we sure as well won't be scoring the 7. For Barretts defensive flaws, he can run a backline much more effiecently than Taylor. I'd even pick Ansombe over Taylor - he's a better goal kicker and at a dangerous runner.

 

[Darwin]

and yet it just seems like the crusaders win more games when he's on the field doesn't it? Not all players need to ooze x-factor, teams need guys like Taylor as much as they need guys like Ranger. And lets face it his goal kicking could be worth 3,6,9 points a game under some circumstances over even what Dan Carter can do. Just look at the Crusaders right now, Dan Carter is the best 10 in the world but when Tom Taylor is on the field he has the kicking tee. Makes a big difference when you have a guy in the side that can basically kick anything in the opposition half over even from the sidelines, remember we are building towards a world cup again and WC finals are mostly won on defense and goal kicking - IMO Tom Taylors strengths.

I'm not trying to convince the world he should be selected, just that he really should be at least in the frame. Kinda a strange year for 10's Cruden is on fire with his attacking game but looks smaller than ever and isn't kicking goals. Barrett hasn't found his feet this year and has bad problems on defense though his class is still there if you look close enough. Carter has been out of action but is an automatic selection. Anscombe has been a revelation and become one of the competitions form players but he's playing fullback! Chris Nokes has actually been very impressive though at times he gets made to look like a complete fool on defense, bit of a mixed bag really.

Appearances can be deceiving. The Crusaders have won 10/16 (63%) of the games that Tom Taylor has played (http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/player?id=4746&name=tom-taylor&team=50001), compared to 6/9 (67%) that he has not played over that same period.....

Taylor is ok, but I tend to agree with Nick - his playmaking skills are nowhere good enough for test rugby at this stage. The Crusaders haven't been great over the last two seasons, but the backline has really struggled to get going with him in the 10 jersey. Though he is versatile he is far from a genuine test option at either 12 or 15, so his versatility isn't that much of an advantage. He does seem and intelligent player, is a reliable defender, and is a superb goal-kicker. He may develop into a test level 10 one day, but at the moment he is firmly behind Carter, Cruden, and Barrett in terms of NZ 10's.

Out of those three I would rank 1) Noakes 2) Taylor 3) Barrett.

I agree with Nick that he'd be a liability in attack. If he improves that part of his game (doesn't have to be fl;ashy at all) then I'd be up for it. He's certainly more of a willing and adequate defender than Barrett at this point. And I'd take his 'safe' skill sets that may not necessarily win you flash games; but wouldn't lose you them/hinder you too much either. Just look at Quade; I think Barrett could be down that path should he regress/plateau in terms of rounding out his game.

I'd rather stability in an AB side over that kind of play.

I feel people are being a tad harsh on Barrett. I felt he was over-hyped last season, where-as this season everyone seems to talking him down. He has exactly the same strengths and weaknesses in his game he had last season, I just feel people are expecting too much from his this year.

While I have been pleasantly surprised with Noakes's attacking play at the Blues, he is still a massive liability on defense. People are more than happy to point on Barrett's obvious flaws in defense, but Noakes is an even worse defender.

it's not like he has a non-existant attack and he can't read the game at all. Heck he has pretty good acceleration and can/does run at gaps to get over the advantage line and I think he's an above average support player.

and yeah you look at those three and of them he is clearly the best goal kicker and clearly the best defender and actually has more utility as well being a genuine mid field option, so why wouldn't he be considered?

maybe i'm talking about backs too much, I look at the AB's and my main concern is Woodcock, Mealamu and Hore these guys have been a major part of the All Blacks front row for a Looong time. And at this point none of them are filling me with confidence. Woodcock in particular. we need to find/devalop another loosehead and hooker.

just quietly another chief that should come into consideration is Tikoirotuma he seems to have established himself as the chiefs best winger, longshot but noteworthy. If only by the fact he's the #1 winger in NZ's #1 super rugby team.

I don't think that is necessarily a good reason to consider someone for the AB's. If so we would be considering the likes of Manu, Aki, and whoever the top Chiefs 8 is Tikoirotimu is a good contributor for the Chiefs, but I'm not really a big fan. He plays hard, has a good work-rate and a lot of pace, but for some reason he isn't really a massive threat with ball in hand - he will beat the odd player, but doesn't break tackles as consistently as many of our top wings. To be considered for the AB's he needs to be a bit more of a threat with ball in hand - either that or reduce his error rate (which is rather high).

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Tiks to me is basically a young Sivivatu. Not a top speedster, and almost looks slow when he runs, but tends to do more than you expect of him.

I agree about Barrett, I think he's a great talent and will certainly be a long stay in the All Blacks, but's he's not the complete package (no more so than he was last year). He looks great on the fly, which should be expected of a sometime fullback, but he needs to be able to control the game better. That's something Cruden's really developed in the last two years - he's had too without having Weepu as his partner.

 

[Larksea]

I think at this stage ABs are most likely to be without Conrad smith for June

on a +ve note Tamati Ellison looks like a sure bet.

 

[Larksea]

just because

1, Ben Franks
2, Hore
3, Owen Franks
4, Romano
5, Whitelock
6, Messam
7, Cane
8, Read
9, Aaron Smith
10, Dan Carter
11, Julian Savea
12, Tamati Ellison
13, Renee Ranger
14, Ben Smith
15, Izzie Dagg

so much experience lost in an important position when McCaw is out. tempting to do something silly like Run Vito at 6 and Messam at 7, or luke braid at 7 just to add some size and experience to the loose forwards. But sam cane is the type of player you give him 80min and he can give you 20+ tackles such great protection over a large area.

the backs I think overall relies a lot on Ranger transferring his super form to test footy and also referees not nailing him at test level for the awesome breakdown work he has been doing at super level. Rangers energy and workrate around the field has been phenomenal and his defense just amazing. he's a fantastic option with Kahui and Smith out. put lots of cool headed players around him (ellison, carter and Ben Smith)

Also note savea didn't play well this week. If he is going to be in the AB's he needs to get over his off-field issues else he will have to give way to Hosea Gear or someone else.

12 is interesting, nonu is injured and lets face it his form is average at best. Ellison looked really good, another option would be to shift carter to 12 and have Cruden at 10. May be a good option with Sam Cane at 7 who can do a lot of tackling in the 10-12 channel.

I don't think the canes scrum problems are Ben Franks fault more likely to do with the other 4 in the tight 5, I would give him a go though Woodcock will likely get first shot again.

 

[admartian]

j
12 is interesting, nonu is injured and lets face it his form is average at best. Ellison looked really good, another option would be to shift carter to 12 and have Cruden at 10. May be a good option with Sam Cane at 7 who can do a lot of tackling in the 10-12 channel.

I wouldn't be against it. Not that Cruden is a defensive liability - he just tends to give up a lot in terms of size (I can see the Wallabies and Saffas exploiting that channel with Higginbotham, Vermeulen etc) But his positioning and tackling are generally sound.

 

[austingtir]

After the weekend id kick Barrett to touch and take Slade every time. Barrett is better at controlling a game but other than that he's pants imo.

We will see over the coming weeks Slade get back to the form that got him in the AB's imo.

I still cant believe anybody would select Dagg in their team ahead of Ben Smith this year. Just crazyness.

 

[tenpm]

Ben Smith is suffering from being too versatile (and being too much like C Smith). A lot of people are looking at him to cover centre and play Dagg at fullback, I think.

 

[Larksea]

IMO ben smith should be seen as the #1 option to take Janes right wing jersey by a country mile, really his form suggests he should be playing 15 and push Dagg to the wing.

I wouldn't write Barrett off.

Simply because he is a player that can take a massive advantage when his forward pack gets quality ball or turnovers, sure he's struggling a bit behind a below par canes pack

 

[donmcdazzle]

After the weekend id kick Barrett to touch and take Slade every time. Barrett is better at controlling a game but other than that he's pants imo.

We will see over the coming weeks Slade get back to the form that got him in the AB's imo.

I still cant believe anybody would select Dagg in their team ahead of Ben Smith this year. Just crazyness.

Are you the same guy who was saying Aaron Smith should be benched for the rest of the season? How did that one work out for you? The call about Slade is about as prescient, same with taking Smith ahead of Dagg.

 

[admartian]

Are you the same guy who was saying Aaron Smith should be benched for the rest of the season? How did that one work out for you? The call about Slade is about as prescient, same with taking Smith ahead of Dagg.

Yep.

A. SMith and Dagg are pretty much the same story on the same book.
Me? I'm more of a "Off the Beauden Bandwagon" kinda guy...