All Blacks squad for their end of year tour

[osmond]

I was impressed by Cruden's kicking last weekend, probably his best kicking ever in the Green jersey, but that was only one good game - if he can keep that up and reproduce it week in week out then he definitely deserves a spot on tour. To be fair on George Whitelock he's only had about 20 minutes off the bench against Italy and I dont think he can be judged on that alone, he deserves a better opportunity than that. I say take him on tour with Dan Braid, leave McCaw at home, and give the man a couple of test starts so we can really see how good he is.

 

[Dizzy]

One good game?.. he lead the Turbos to victory the week before.

And as for all this recent media talk about leaving McCaw and Carter home to develop more depth...

do you guys really think it's fair??

I mean, every kiwi grows up aspiring to become an All Black, these boys have done so and have excelled in becoming the best players in the world, Rugby is their career and for the sake of finding a replacement they get left behind on a tour to the northern hemisphere.
I know I'd be ****** if I was left off the tour so the coaches could find a replacement. I'd be itching to go and use every opportunity I have. Being an All Black is very special and I don't think players should get the honour of wearing the black jersey simply to prove they're worth it.
All your opportunities of proving your worth should be done in the domestic competitions, if you don't deserve the highest honour, you don't get it in my books

 

[ranger]

I was impressed by Cruden's kicking last weekend, probably his best kicking ever in the Green jersey, but that was only one good game - if he can keep that up and reproduce it week in week out then he definitely deserves a spot on tour. To be fair on George Whitelock he's only had about 20 minutes off the bench against Italy and I dont think he can be judged on that alone, he deserves a better opportunity than that. I say take him on tour with Dan Braid, leave McCaw at home, and give the man a couple of test starts so we can really see how good he is.

Cruden also kicked 15 points the week before that.. as well as scoring and setting up the only two tries. He has played well in every Manawatu game he has had a hand in, and that was also far from his best kicking game for Manawatu. And if we are being "fair" on George Whitelock, he got 20 minutes off the bench against Italy without really earning his spot, and this year in both the super 14 and ITM cup he has been abysmal. You say that Cruden needs to produce week in week out (and he is so far) but Whitelock should get a free pass just because? How does he "deserve" a better opportunity, what has he done?
Latimer, Braid, Todd, Hardie, Lowe and Boys have all been playing better than him, Whitelock shouldn't even make the Crusaders 22 on form let alone the All Blacks..

 

[osmond]

I dont have anything against Cruden and the way he's been playing. He's had some phenomenal games for Manawatu and I'll admit I didnt see the game 2 weeks ago. I would love to take him on tour but I'd also like to take Delaney and Robbie Robinson. We have a logjam of talent at number 10 in NZ and we'd never be able to try all of them before the World Cup, I just think Slade's kicking is superior to Cruden's at the moment.

We dont have the same logjam at number 7, which is why I think it is especially important to develop depth there on the tour, and the best way to do that would be to bring in Braid and Whitelock. I dont think Whitelock is as bad as he's being made out to be. He's led Canterbury to the top 4 as captain and he's the best tackler in the region. Braid has also impressed me this year at the Queensland Reds and definitely deserves a spot. I'm liking the look of Todd as well, looks like a great All Black of the future.

 

[ranger]

I dont have anything against Cruden and the way he's been playing. He's had some phenomenal games for Manawatu and I'll admit I didnt see the game 2 weeks ago. I would love to take him on tour but I'd also like to take Delaney and Robbie Robinson. We have a logjam of talent at number 10 in NZ and we'd never be able to try all of them before the World Cup, I just think Slade's kicking is superior to Cruden's at the moment.

We dont have the same logjam at number 7, which is why I think it is especially important to develop depth there on the tour, and the best way to do that would be to bring in Braid and Whitelock. I dont think Whitelock is as bad as he's being made out to be. He's led Canterbury to the top 4 as captain and he's the best tackler in the region. Braid has also impressed me this year at the Queensland Reds and definitely deserves a spot. I'm liking the look of Todd as well, looks like a great All Black of the future.

Ive always seen Robinson as more of a fullback. He has looked alright for Southland in a pack thats going forward, but when he got chances to play 10 for the Highlanders where things weren't on a plate there for him he sort of crumbled. I like the fact that Cruden is able to carry his team with no real support, which is not something that Robinson appears capable of at first five at this stage in his career. There is a reason why Cruden started at 10 and captained the NZ under 20s while Robinson played fullback.

As for developing talent at 7, i agree entirely, except where you lose me is when you say Whitelock should be selected for that purpose? as i said before he is being out performed by a whole list of players, even his own number 6 is playing a better openside game than him. I have no doubt that Canterbury would have made the top 4 without him, he gives away more penalties than hes worth. Tanerau Latimer plays the same style of game as Whitelock without the silly frustration penalties. What attributes do you think set George Whitelock ahead of the other options?

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Ive always seen Robinson as more of a fullback. He has looked alright for Southland in a pack thats going forward, but when he got chances to play 10 for the Highlanders where things weren't on a plate there for him he sort of crumbled. I like the fact that Cruden is able to carry his team with no real support, which is not something that Robinson appears capable of at first five at this stage in his career. There is a reason why Cruden started at 10 and captained the NZ under 20s while Robinson played fullback.

As for developing talent at 7, i agree entirely, except where you lose me is when you say Whitelock should be selected for that purpose? as i said before he is being out performed by a whole list of players, even his own number 6 is playing a better openside game than him. I have no doubt that Canterbury would have made the top 4 without him, he gives away more penalties than hes worth. Tanerau Latimer plays the same style of game as Whitelock without the silly frustration penalties. What attributes do you think set George Whitelock ahead of the other options?

Robbie Robinson makes a number of silly errors, just dropping the ball, basics. I think he's far behind the likes of Slade, Cruden, Donald, Delany, even Brett.

 

[BjR]

Agreed - Donald and Delany might not have the gloss of Carter but they get the little things right - something that is not always acknowledged.

 

[RocknRola]

Robbie Robinson makes a number of silly errors, just dropping the ball, basics. I think he's far behind the likes of Slade, Cruden, Donald, Delany, even Brett.

Not just dropping the ball, missed tackles, sure hes got talent with the ball but jeez hes pretty poor defensively, but hell get better.
Id pefer Slade and Donald i reckon have a great running game, deliver the ball beautifully to outside backs, and both have decent kicking games, and also i like how u can play slade at 15 not that ud probally need to and u can play donald at 12 ( which he does alright at)
Not sold on Cruden must admit havent seen much of him but either have most.
Delany i wouldnt mind either has a great kicking game and has a calm head, but id just pefer the other two for their running game.
Please Henry take Gear, Fruen and SBW on tour

 

[donmcdazzle]

Not sold on Cruden must admit havent seen much of him but either have most.
Delany i wouldnt mind either has a great kicking game and has a calm head, but id just pefer the other two for their running game.
Please Henry take Gear, Fruen and SBW on tour

I've seen tons of him, throughout schoolboy rugby and for the turbos/hurricanes. He's the best running 1st 5 in the country bar none. Donald and especially Slade do not compare in that aspect. I'm getting fed up of people judging Cruden on one game, and now they're "not sold" on him.. This isn't directed at you RocknRola but plenty of people have said the same sort of uninformed comments.

 

[nickdnz]

Not just dropping the ball, missed tackles, sure hes got talent with the ball but jeez hes pretty poor defensively, but hell get better.
Id pefer Slade and Donald i reckon have a great running game, deliver the ball beautifully to outside backs, and both have decent kicking games, and also i like how u can play slade at 15 not that ud probally need to and u can play donald at 12 ( which he does alright at)
Not sold on Cruden must admit havent seen much of him but either have most.
Delany i wouldnt mind either has a great kicking game and has a calm head, but id just pefer the other two for their running game.
Please Henry take Gear, Fruen and SBW on tour

Now in English?

 

[Larksea]

a lot of talk about who is going to cover mid field with Kahui out. Gotta admit if I was a selector I'd be looking seriously at ben smith. really like watching him play and I think he has a really good head for test rugby - and like Toeava he can basically play anywhere from 11 - 15. If you want someone with a really reliable game to cover Smith and Nonu for injury ben smith would be a very good option.

 

[markshaw]

I see Rene Ranger as a better cover but i agree with you that he has a good head definatly

 

[Dizzy]

Mate, Fruean and SBW....

 

[osmond]

I like the look of Ben Smith too, I reckon he could even do well at first five. Henry should definately select him. Could be an All Black great in the future.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He's not allowed to suggest Ranger because there are two other players who also play his position? :S

 

[nickdnz]

I like the look of Ben Smith too, I reckon he could even do well at first five. Henry should definately select him. Could be an All Black great in the future.

Backed with little or no evidence. He was very good in the 7s, but I don't think he's 1st 5/8th or win quality. His best position is center, and let's face it, there are plenty of better centers going around.

 

[Larksea]

Backed with little or no evidence. He was very good in the 7s, but I don't think he's 1st 5/8th or win quality. His best position is center, and let's face it, there are plenty of better centers going around.

define "better"? I know for sure there are players around that can bust a tackle better than ben smith but do any of them have the all round skills and reliability he has? I think that's worth a lot.

 

[Larksea]

Just for the record I'm not the only one beating the drum for donald.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ational-Donald-looks-All-Blacks-tour-material

"Stephen Donald Donald is making it almost impossible for the All Blacks selectors not to take him on the end-of-year tour to Hong Kong and the British Isles. "

"Incredibly, Donald has nailed 22 of his last 23 shots at goal and is now head and shoulders above every other No10 in the country."

pretty much echo's what i've been saying. Considering how serious his injury was back in may - he must have worked his arse off to get where he is right now. I think either the selectors have already made up their minds to take Slade & Cruden and not beaver. Or Donald has a massive chance to book a ticket north tomorrow night when he and cruden put their skills on show. IMO If donald stays true to form the selectors wont have any choice but to take him.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Just for the record I'm not the only one beating the drum for donald.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ational-Donald-looks-All-Blacks-tour-material

"Stephen Donald Donald is making it almost impossible for the All Blacks selectors not to take him on the end-of-year tour to Hong Kong and the British Isles. "

"Incredibly, Donald has nailed 22 of his last 23 shots at goal and is now head and shoulders above every other No10 in the country."

pretty much echo's what i've been saying. Considering how serious his injury was back in may - he must have worked his arse off to get where he is right now. I think either the selectors have already made up their minds to take Slade & Cruden and not beaver. Or Donald has a massive chance to book a ticket north tomorrow night when he and cruden put their skills on show. IMO If donald stays true to form the selectors wont have any choice but to take him.

So you real name is David Long Larksea?

Just kidding. I don't think there's any doubting Donald's work ethic, for a guy to come back from that injury in great condition fitness wise and form wise is testament to how hard he must've worked. However he just doesn't have the goods to step up at the next level in my (and most other people's) opinion. As many have mentioned he is laboured in his play, and his skill level is noticably lower than his rivals. You can tell how hard he must practice though. Take his kicking style for example, so unorthadox with the way he throws it up, but he must have practised like crazy so that it works most of the time. I think he has squeezed every last inch out of the ability he has and i don't see too much room for improvement.

That kick and chase try he scored was such a fluke, pinging off his knee! There is no way he intended that one.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

ITT: Unorthodox = Bad