All Blacks squad for their end of year tour

[Seaton]

When is the squad announced btw

 

[Darwin]

When is the squad announced btw

17th of October

 

[Larksea]

Mealamu, Hore (Elliot if not fit)
Woody, Franks x2, Afoa - I really wont to find room for MacIntosh but these 4 are doing really well. I think MacIntosh is easily the next best loosehead in NZ. But Ben & John trump him with their versatility.
Thorn, Donnely, Boric, Whitelock
McCaw, Read, Kaino, Vito, Messam
Weepu, Cowan, Leonard
Carter, Slade, Donald
Nonu, Sonny Bill
Conrad Smith, Toeava
Sivivatu, Jane, Rokocoko
Mills, Dagg

I guess with it getting close, less then two weeks away we are getting a better picture of what the squad will look like. Stanley will make way for sonny Bill. Toeava will take the place of the injured Kahui. Ranger will make way for Sivivatu's return. I also think they will take 3 options to cover 10, carter being a done deal, I think Slade leap frogged Cruden and Donald gets the last spot off the back of his new found form to go with his previous experience and Leonard comes in as 3rd halfback after an outstanding ITM cup.

Lots of competition for spots though, NZ rugby is very strong right now and some class players are returning to form and returning well from injury.

 

[Darwin]

I'm pretty sure that the squad will be a 16 forward / 14 back split - as such there will likely either be 7 front-rowers or 6 loose-forwards. That will bring the likes of MacIntosh, Crockett, or Charlie Faumuina into contention (or the likes of Rutledge, Elliot, Flynn, or de Malmanche if they want 3 hookers), or may open a spot up for a specialist 7 like Dan Braid.

In the backs, I think they are looking at only including 2 halfbacks (with perhaps Cruden providing cover). I can't see they looking past the established duo of Cowan and Weepu, but personally I'd like to see Mathewson given a chance.

 

[Larksea]

could be but I dont think so, I dont think specialist 7 cover is needed and I've not seen anything speial from Braid in ITM cup.

And extra prop is a chance but I think they want extra cover for 10 and 9 and if they want to take sonny bill I think they also need utility there as well, sonny shouldn't be the only one there to cover 12-13 he lacks experience. If Hore is fit they wont need another Hooker, if he's not then I hate to say it but Flynn will likely go.

 

[osmond]

Theres talk that Sonny may be groomed as a backup flanker and a winger, imagine that, he would be the ultimate utility

 

[Shaggy]

Theres talk that Sonny may be groomed as a backup flanker and a winger, imagine that, he would be the ultimate utility

Oh please Noooooooooo! ... they tried that with Jonah (he actually came on as a loose forward, as a substitution in a test) ... play SBW at 12, move him to the 13 position or the wings if necessary, but keep him out of the forwards.

 

[Darwin]

could be but I dont think so, I dont think specialist 7 cover is needed and I've not seen anything speial from Braid in ITM cup.

And extra prop is a chance but I think they want extra cover for 10 and 9 and if they want to take sonny bill I think they also need utility there as well, sonny shouldn't be the only one there to cover 12-13 he lacks experience. If Hore is fit they wont need another Hooker, if he's not then I hate to say it but Flynn will likely go.

I don't think I've ever seen a 15 forward/15 back split in a 30-man squad, it's almost always 16/14, or occasionally 17/13. Personally I think they will take six loose-forwards, but wouldn't be surprised if they are tempted to take another hooker if the select both Mealamu and Hore, as both will only just be back from injury... I suppose we will find out in just over a week.

 

[ranger]

Oh please Noooooooooo! ... they tried that with Jonah (he actually came on as a loose forward, as a substitution in a test) ... play SBW at 12, move him to the 13 position or the wings if necessary, but keep him out of the forwards.

Jonah played all his schoolboy rugby at number 8. Truth be told he was probably more at home there than on the wing, his positional play was always shocking.
I dont think its a bad move trying him out at 6. We would miss the workload that Kaino gives, but if the pack was stacked with hard workers like Read, McCaw, the Frankses, Whitelock, Thorn and Mealamu then they could pick up the slack to an extent. That would give SBW a bit of a free license to pop up in the backline or make some hits. Definitely worth trying once.

 

[Shaggy]

Jonah played all his schoolboy rugby at number 8. Truth be told he was probably more at home there than on the wing, his positional play was always shocking.
I dont think its a bad move trying him out at 6. We would miss the workload that Kaino gives, but if the pack was stacked with hard workers like Read, McCaw, the Frankses, Whitelock, Thorn and Mealamu then they could pick up the slack to an extent. That would give SBW a bit of a free license to pop up in the backline or make some hits. Definitely worth trying once.

Yep, I know Jonah was a number 8 at school, but by the time they tried him in the AB's as a loose forward, he was definitely a winger ... as for SBW, if he has positional issues at 12, fine play him in the forwards, just make him one or the other, decide what position he's going to be, and give him game time there.

If I was SBW i'd resist being made into a utility player ... the AB's are full of utility players that have fallen by the wayside because they aren't seen as a specialist in any position

 

[William18]

Mealamu, Rutledge
Woody, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Afoa
Thorn, Donnely, Boric, Whitelock
McCaw, Read, Kaino, Vito, Messam, Thomson
Weepu, Cowan, Mathewson
Carter, Slade
Nonu
Conrad Smith, Toeava, Freuan
Sivivatu, Jane, Rococoko, Ranger
Mills, Dagg

I don't want SBW in there TBH. He has to play Super14 first. I have given up putting Gear into these things. Henry just doesn't like him.

 

[ranger]

Mealamu, Rutledge
Woody, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Afoa
Thorn, Donnely, Boric, Whitelock
McCaw, Read, Kaino, Vito, Messam, Thomson
Weepu, Cowan, Mathewson
Carter, Slade
Nonu
Conrad Smith, Toeava, Freuan
Sivivatu, Jane, Rococoko, Ranger
Mills, Dagg

I don't want SBW in there TBH. He has to play Super14 first. I have given up putting Gear into these things. Henry just doesn't like him.

Its all very well saying he has to play super 14 first, but what happens if he dominates in the super 14? he gets what 3 games experience before playing in the world cup? thats not really ideal. The time to test him is on this tour.

 

[nickdnz]

Its all very well saying he has to play super 14 first, but what happens if he dominates in the super 14? he gets what 3 games experience before playing in the world cup? thats not really ideal. The time to test him is on this tour.

And what if he turns out to be nothing special in the S14 or EOYT, and he's just taken the spot of someone else that could have been tested, leaving them with 3 games to prepear? Seems a bit of a double standard.

 

[ranger]

And what if he turns out to be nothing special in the S14 or EOYT, and he's just taken the spot of someone else that could have been tested, leaving them with 3 games to prepear? Seems a bit of a double standard.

Someone like who? He would be taking Toeavas spot in Williams list. Its not like we haven't seen what Toeava has to offer before.
SBW has shown enough in the ITM cup to warrant a further look, besides Fruean i can't think of any other midfielders who can say the same. Its not a double standard he has just earned it.

 

[smartcooky]

I don't want SBW in there TBH. He has to play Super14 first. I have given up putting Gear into these things. Henry just doesn't like him.

In that case, you would have been against McCaw making his test debut at the time he did? He played for the AB's straight from the Canterbury ANZC team before ever getting a Super 12 contract.

In fact, before 1996, All Blacks were always selected from NPC.

If I was SBW i'd resist being made into a utility player ... the AB's are full of utility players that have fallen by the wayside because they aren't seen as a specialist in any position

I don't see 12/13 as utility, I see them as interchangeable positions...remember Tana?

 

[nickdnz]

Someone like who? He would be taking Toeavas spot in Williams list. Its not like we haven't seen what Toeava has to offer before.
SBW has shown enough in the ITM cup to warrant a further look, besides Fruean i can't think of any other midfielders who can say the same. Its not a double standard he has just earned it.

Jared Payne, maybe? Admittedly, I can't see a reason (that would be accepted by anyone else) that Payne warrents a spot in the centers over SBW.

If Hosea Gear is not in this AB squad (bar injury), I will throw a temper tantrum that would make rugbywriter look like a mature and respectable member of the TRF community.

 

[lynam1104]

Jared Payne, maybe? Admittedly, I can't see a reason (that would be accepted by anyone else) that Payne warrents a spot in the centers over SBW.

If Hosea Gear is not in this AB squad (bar injury), I will throw a temper tantrum that would make rugbywriter look like a mature and respectable member of the TRF community.

I don't think thats possible...

 

[ranger]

Jared Payne, maybe? Admittedly, I can't see a reason (that would be accepted by anyone else) that Payne warrents a spot in the centers over SBW.

If Hosea Gear is not in this AB squad (bar injury), I will throw a temper tantrum that would make rugbywriter look like a mature and respectable member of the TRF community.

I'm a huge Payne fan, but even though he has been playing great rugby at centre, hes really a fullback slotting in somewhere where he can touch the ball more. As you say it would be an uphill battle to convince people that he is an All Black caliber midfielder..

I've sort of resigned myself to the fact that Gear wont make the cut. It sucks but nothing has changed, he isn't playing any better than he was before the trinations squad was picked (because he was brilliant then too) and i dont think Henry will change his mind. That being said if Guildford manages to get a black jersey over him again i will start laying out some fools.

 

[Seaton]

Jared Payne, maybe? Admittedly, I can't see a reason (that would be accepted by anyone else) that Payne warrents a spot in the centers over SBW.

If Hosea Gear is not in this AB squad (bar injury), I will throw a temper tantrum that would make rugbywriter look like a mature and respectable former member of the TRF community.

As a side question, is it IRB law/ruling that only a certain amount of players can be taken on tour?

And as All Black supporters, how would feel if Henry fielded a 'second string' team against Scotland.
I, as an obvious Scottish supporter, would actually be more worried about a potential thrashing, with youngster wanting to earn their spots.

Are my thoughts/fears shared by anyone?

 

[Shaggy]

In that case, you would have been against McCaw making his test debut at the time he did? He played for the AB's straight from the Canterbury ANZC team before ever getting a Super 12 contract.

In fact, before 1996, All Blacks were always selected from NPC.



I don't see 12/13 as utility, I see them as interchangeable positions...remember Tana?[/QUOTE]

Sure, I know Tana started off on the Wing, and played most of his All Black rugby in the 13 jersey, i'm not sure how many he played in the 12 jersey ... anyway my point is there have been a lot of players more than capable of playing in many positions, that have been used that way, and that their versatility has gone against them in the long run, because they haven't been seen as the best in a specialist position.

In SBW case he's most likely to succeed at 12 IMO, because there really is only Nonu, and perhaps McAlister to compete with ... at 13 he has Smith, Kahui and Toeava (when both are fit), and Fruean.

I guess the whole playing SBW in the forwards concerned me ... I know he's not a small boy, but you do perhaps need bulk rather and speed less so, where as in the backs, it's the other way around ... make him one or the other, not both