All Blacks squad for their end of year tour

[Sam Owen]

Well Im a Wellington man and I rate George Whitelock. He only knocked the ball on once or twice in this years ITM cup, and it was because he wasnt expecting the ball to be fair on the guy. He doesnt receive any more yellow cards or penalties than guys like Richie McCaw so I dont know why people say that. He is the answer to our backup openside.

I know Whitelocks good but did you see Faafili Levave fend him off for a try in the weekend?

 

[donmcdazzle]

Not only does Coles run the ball like a back, he actually thinks he's a back - he spends about as much time in the backline as Isaac Ross! Kevin Mealamu had a similar issue early in his career, though to be fair I think Coles is starting to play a bit tighter this year. Once he realises he has a 2 rather than a 12 written on his back he will become a much better rugby player!

haha this is pretty true he does seagull quite a bit. However I think the improvements he needs to make are relatively easily coachable. I think he has the tools to be a jeremy paul type player for the all blacks. If he tightens up a wee bit he'll be great. Seems to have good coordination which means his throwing is spot on, whereas demalmanche looks all kinds of uncoordinated which makes me think he will never quite get there with the throwing in.

Am i the only one who thinks Hore is overrated? I don;t know what he has done to get a status of being straight back into the all black fold when he returns from injury.. He is pretty replaceable i reckon and has been the beneficiary of no real competition for the back up hooker role up until the last year or two when the young guys have emerged.

 

[Dizzy]

haha this is pretty true he does seagull quite a bit. However I think the improvements he needs to make are relatively easily coachable. I think he has the tools to be a jeremy paul type player for the all blacks. If he tightens up a wee bit he'll be great. Seems to have good coordination which means his throwing is spot on, whereas demalmanche looks all kinds of uncoordinated which makes me think he will never quite get there with the throwing in.

Am i the only one who thinks Hore is overrated? I don;t know what he has done to get a status of being straight back into the all black fold when he returns from injury.. He is pretty replaceable i reckon and has been the beneficiary of no real competition for the back up hooker role up until the last year or two when the young guys have emerged.

Yes you are.
Watch him with a Rugby eye, his workrate is awesome and give him the ball for the pick and go 5metres from the tryline and he will score I guarantee it. Or would you rather see Corey Flynn out there?. Andrew Hore is seriously a great hooker. Maybe you're a bit like me, I hated Kieran Read and when he was announced as the no 8 for the tri nations I was furious. But he proved me wrong and now I wouldn't want anyone else there

 

[squirrel]

not convinced about hores throwing or scrummaging but hes awesome around the fied

 

[Darwin]

haha this is pretty true he does seagull quite a bit. However I think the improvements he needs to make are relatively easily coachable. I think he has the tools to be a jeremy paul type player for the all blacks. If he tightens up a wee bit he'll be great. Seems to have good coordination which means his throwing is spot on, whereas demalmanche looks all kinds of uncoordinated which makes me think he will never quite get there with the throwing in.

Am i the only one who thinks Hore is overrated? I don;t know what he has done to get a status of being straight back into the all black fold when he returns from injury.. He is pretty replaceable i reckon and has been the beneficiary of no real competition for the back up hooker role up until the last year or two when the young guys have emerged.

I agree that Coles has all the tools to be a top class hooker - most tight forwards tend to improve with age, so I won't at all be surprised to see Coles in the AB's in a few years time.

I certainly don't think Hore is overrated - his work in the tight exceptional, and he's like an extra openside flanker at ruck time. When he gets back to full fitness it will be a good battle between him and Mealamu for the starting hooker role in the AB's.

 

[Larksea]

I do really like Coles, done mind him flaping around a bit he is after all very good with ball in hand. Pretty powerful runner and faster than most hookers.

Aled, well every part of his game apart from lineout throwing is brilliant. Do have to wonder if the huge arms he sports from pumping iron in the gym makes it harder to master the more delicate operation of throwing to the lineout. But ball in hand he's hard to stop and he's also very good on defence around the rucks and seems to love it. I'm sure the oposition have him on their mind when the pick from the ruch because he hits like a truck.

Hore, obviously not as much of a runner. But a good scavenger and scrumager good ability to get his hands on and hold up oposition ball. I dont think he had a great yeah last year but I hope he does regain his form soon. was only a couple of hears ago he was maybe the best hooker in the world and I think he won NZ player of the year as well.

Elliot IMO wouldn't be out of place in the All Blacks, because his lineout throwing seems to be that much better he's a bit above Aled im my book.

Jason rutledge - obviously in great form, and for some time too. I cant help but feel he just may be a bit too small for test rugby. It's all very well standing out at ITM or even super14 but at test rugby everyone is that much bigger and faster he may find it that much harder to make that impact. yeah I know Mealamu is not big, but one of mealamu's legs are about 1 and a half of rutledge's he's got a freakish amount of power for his size and it actually works for him.

 

[ranger]

Jesus Christ i hope we don't resort to Dane Coles! his positional game isn't just off a bit, its completely ******. He thinks hes playing league, that will take a while to fix. Beyond that, he isn't this great lineout thrower either, a couple of years ago he had the worst game from a hooker i have ever seen. He lost something ridiculous like 11 lineouts, which was every lineout he threw into that game.
Even if thats fixed, hes just got a crap attitude. He thinks he is an All Black already, hes always starting ****ly little fights and trying to prove how tough he is. Can't stand the guy.
I think after the current batch of hookers retire, Hika Elliot, ADM and Ash Dixon can fight it out. By the time they are done Liam Coltman will be experienced enough to step up.

Hores top quality as well. He burrows into the tightwork like a champion and still manages to score tries in bucketloads. That just shows how hard hes working in there. He is also a great pilferer of the ball for a front rower

 

[Sam Owen]

Kevin Mealamu, Andrew Hore, Hika Elliot, Aled De Malmanche, Jason Rutledge, Corey Flynn those are my top hookers at the moment. Dane Coles is probably the fastest of them (not sure about that but Dane's quick) but maybe not ready just yet for an All Black jumper. To me he's not solid, robust enough. In the Wellington pack he looks like the most easiest one to drive backwards, oh and Ive seen him get thumped once not a big smash but it made him look he should be out in the backs.

Dane's ok, I'd be surprised if he made the AB's though but Henry and co. do make at least 1 surprise selection.

 

[Dizzy]

Coles is a no no. Atm all we need is hore and mealamu.. my next pick would be Elliot, because he's a great player

 

[nickdnz]

Coles is alright, but in terms of hooking, scrumming, rucking and throwing, he's fairly average. He's one of those players who have something extra, without the core skills. If you want a mobile Hooker, Hika Elliot is the man. Andrew Hore is certainly not over rated. He has a Marty Holah esque approach to ripping the ball out from the ruck, and he has very good upp body skills. He's a solid scrummager and very good in the loose. My only criticism is he isn't the best line out thrower, though from watching Cory Flynn against Wellington, that's hardly going to lower him down the pecking order.

Cory Flynn is very over rated in my opinion. His main attirbute to getting a test spot was that he is just a solid option, but this ITM Cup, even de Melmanche has been throwing better. In my mind either de Melmanche, Elliot or if the situation calls, Rutledge (too old to be considered a future prospect, but probably the most influential hooker in NZ right now).

 

[donmcdazzle]

The calls that Rutledge is too small for international footy are a bit redundant when you compare him to Hore, who himself is not big at all.

Of course I would rather Hore than Flynn who is, and has always been, terrible.

On form it has to be Rutledge as the backup on the tour, Southland set piece is a huge part of their success, as is their tight attack and defense. The guy has had the season of his life and it'd be harsh to leave him out for a guy who hasn't even played. In saying that I'm sure Hore will tour.

Coles is a couple years away at least and needs the aforementioned attitude/game style adjustment but I'm adament the tools are there. I've played him in club rugby a few times and can vouch that he is much quicker than most forwards let alone hookers. Him and elliot will obvioulsy be the two AB hookers in a few years time.

 

[Darwin]

The calls that Rutledge is too small for international footy are a bit redundant when you compare him to Hore, who himself is not big at all.

Of course I would rather Hore than Flynn who is, and has always been, terrible.

On form it has to be Rutledge as the backup on the tour, Southland set piece is a huge part of their success, as is their tight attack and defense. The guy has had the season of his life and it'd be harsh to leave him out for a guy who hasn't even played. In saying that I'm sure Hore will tour.

Coles is a couple years away at least and needs the aforementioned attitude/game style adjustment but I'm adament the tools are there. I've played him in club rugby a few times and can vouch that he is much quicker than most forwards let alone hookers. Him and elliot will obvioulsy be the two AB hookers in a few years time.

While I do agree that Rutledge's form probably does warrant selection, I do think his size is an issue. He is very small compared the other NZ hooking options - here are the relatives sizes of the NZ hooker contenders (taken from either the provincial websites or Allblacks.com)

Jason Rutledge: 1.75m 99kg
Andrew Hore: 1.83 110kg
Kevin Mealamu: 1.81 106kg
Aled de Malmanche: 1.85 113kg
Corey Flynn: 1.84 108kg
Hika Elliot: 1.86 110kg

While size certainly isn't everything (and indeed Rutledge is apparently very powerful for his size) the fact that he is approximately 10kg lighter than any of the other NZ hooking contenders surely will be taken into consideration.

 

[Larksea]

I dont believe age is an issue for All Black selection less than a year out from a world cup. If Rutledge is the best man for the job to go on tour now then he should go. He's not all of a sudden going to become too old to play rugby in 10 months.

As I've said I think if anything his lack of size will work against him. Also He's a similar type player to Hore yet Hore Is a proven test player and has the needed size.

 

[Darwin]

I dont believe age is an issue for All Black selection less than a year out from a world cup. If Rutledge is the best man for the job to go on tour now then he should go. He's not all of a sudden going to become too old to play rugby in 10 months.

As I've said I think if anything his lack of size will work against him. Also He's a similar type player to Hore yet Hore Is a proven test player and has the needed size.

I agree entirely - I'm sure the AB selectors won't take his age into account. If anything, Rutledge seems to be getting better with age - the way he keeps improving he will probably be a better player in 10 months time!

 

[Larksea]

may even work for him, I think older player that make the AB's take less time to adjust.

 

[Dizzy]

Ranger Danger is all we need haha

 

[donmcdazzle]

Hore 110kg? I find that hard to believe.. must have some heavy bones. Look at him in this photo, no real size to his legs like mealamu and not exactly huge up top.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/XylEO4YdfIL/All+Blacks+Training+Session/OR0sjiMzx03/Andrew+Hore

 

[donmcdazzle]

I didn't realise Rutledge was quite that small though so I concede that point.

 

[nickdnz]

Hore 110kg? I find that hard to believe.. must have some heavy bones. Look at him in this photo, no real size to his legs like mealamu and not exactly huge up top.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/XylEO4YdfIL/All+Blacks+Training+Session/OR0sjiMzx03/Andrew+Hore

He's not a small hooker dude, and I'd rate him as having the best upper body strength of all the NZ hookers except perhaps de Melmanche. And yes, when he's being compared to a 2.02m lock, he's obviously going to look small, despite being only 2kgs lighter.

 

[BjR]

Hookers: Hore (Elliot), Mealamu
Props: Woodcock, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Afoa
Locks: Thorn, Donnelly, Boric, Sam Whitelock
Loosies: Kaino, Vito, Read, McCaw, Messam
Halfbacks: Weepu, Cowan, Mathewson
First-fives: Carter, Slade, Delany
Mid-field: Nonu, Kahui, Fruean, Conrad Smith, Sonny-Bill Williams
Wing/Fullbacks: Sivivatu, Jane, Dagg, Ranger, Muliaina

Would give Delany and Slade a start, with Messam at 8 at least once