All Blacks squad for their end of year tour

[Larksea]

Imagine this.

That game with Donald playing for the turbos and Cruden playing for waikato. It would have been nothing other than a Dominant Turbos win. Cruden did have an ok game but on the most part he failed to take advantage of the dominant forward pack in front of him.

 

[ranger]

lol ranger

that same hard running from donald won the game for the AB's vs AUS in brisy in 08

face it, donald outplayed the current AB 10 even though he had a weaker forward pack in front of him. Donald was forced to kick a lot because the Waikato forwards were getting smashed. And the kicks were good though the waikato chase was poor most of the time.

Outplayed? are you freaking kidding me? outkicked yes, but Donald had plenty of oppotunites to get his backs firing and couldn't do it. His playmaking was absolutely non existant. Tell me, do you think a first five is selected to kick and make tackles or to run a backline?

That game with Donald playing for the turbos and Cruden playing for waikato. It would have been nothing other than a Dominant Turbos win. Cruden did have an ok game but on the most part he failed to take advantage of the dominant forward pack in front of him.

Cruden would have been able to get the rest of the attackers in the Waikato backline involved, you know, like a firstfive is supposed to do.. Tokula vs Parks? Willison vs Leota? Speight vs Clare? Muliaina vs Anyone? That game should have been a no contest in Waikatos direction. Manawatu blitzed Donald and he couldn't think fast enough to spark anything so he either booted it or shoveled it. Just look at what Cruden was able to do last year with a pack going backwards every game..

 

[donmcdazzle]

Imagine this.

That game with Donald playing for the turbos and Cruden playing for waikato. It would have been nothing other than a Dominant Turbos win. Cruden did have an ok game but on the most part he failed to take advantage of the dominant forward pack in front of him.

Larksea I respect your opinions but this is getting crazy. If the Coaches were offered a straight swap between the players, i reckon Dave Rennie says no before Gibbs.

Rangers points pretty much sum it all up about the manner in which they play. I don't even think it's a contest between them to be honest given the potential Cruden has.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Can you explain slipping through tackles as opposed to breaking through them?

 

[ranger]

Can you explain slipping through tackles as opposed to breaking through them?

You really cant see the difference?

 

[donmcdazzle]

Can you explain slipping through tackles as opposed to breaking through them?

I think he means the way in which the two players break the line. Donald with power, Cruden with fleet of foot (in a very general summary). And what he is saying is that Donald's approach is not going to work so well at the next level whereas Crudens has a better chance of success.

 

[Larksea]

Of course you cant swap players.

I only made that comment because one thing donald is good at is taking advantage of a good forward pack when it's in front of him. What he did tonight was put on a game winning performance behind a forward pack that for most of the game got it's but smacked combined with a rush defence coming at his backline and a 3rd choice halfback who works in the WRU office as an accountant feeding him the ball - he did have a busy game but his clearance from the rucks was padestrian compared to Leonard & Barlow.

If the waikato forward pack had dominated I'm sure ranger would have gone on about how easy donald had it and how the game was won by his forwards and had nothing to do with him. He says donald lacks vision and tactics and in the same breath he says donalds first try was weak because he took advantage of the Turbos 8 who was not 100% and sailed through a few tackles to score.

Yet it was the turbo's forwards who set the best platform by far and still donald won the game and I'm hearing how he actually heald the waikato team back...

Momment of the game IMO was just before full time you could see the Waikato team in a huddle and donald was shouting at the forwards. Looked pretty obvious he was telling them "get me a good quick ball and I'll win the game" and that's exactly what happened.

As for goal kicking the kicks cruden missed were regulation for donald - goes without saying. And also note that this is Crudens home ground, giving him and advantage with both the crowd noise and wind.

 

[nickdnz]

Of course you cant swap players.

I only made that comment because one thing donald is good at is taking advantage of a good forward pack when it's in front of him. What he did tonight was put on a game winning performance behind a forward pack that for most of the game got it's but smacked combined with a rush defence coming at his backline and a 3rd choice halfback who works in the WRU office as an accountant feeding him the ball - he did have a busy game but his clearance from the rucks was padestrian compared to Leonard & Barlow.

If the waikato forward pack had dominated I'm sure ranger would have gone on about how easy donald had it and how the game was won by his forwards and had nothing to do with him. He says donald lacks vision and tactics and in the same breath he says donalds first try was weak because he took advantage of the Turbos 8 who was not 100% and sailed through a few tackles to score.

Yet it was the turbo's forwards who set the best platform by far and still donald won the game and I'm hearing how he actually heald the waikato team back...

Momment of the game IMO was just before full time you could see the Waikato team in a huddle and donald was shouting at the forwards. Looked pretty obvious he was telling them "get me a good quick ball and I'll win the game" and that's exactly what happened.

As for goal kicking the kicks cruden missed were regulation for donald - goes without saying. And also note that this is Crudens home ground, giving him and advantage with both the crowd noise and wind.

Waikato 26:26
"Donald took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it, For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins"

Clearly 2nd place Waikato would have been in real trouble against the might of 13th placed Manuwatu, had it not been for Donald >.>.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I'm just worried Donald's point scoring exploits might have brought him back into the 3 wise mens plans.. for my healths sake i hope not. Never been so nervous watching a guy play for the AB's.

 

[Larksea]

yeah well all the donald haters better stay away from the rugby sections of your news site

http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/news/article/-/8136343/donald-double-helps-sink-manawatu

this one for example features his name 9 times

"The international first five-eighth hit the line at pace one off the ruck to force his way over before adding the extras to lift his personal contribution to 22 points."

"It was a cruel blow for 13th-placed Manawatu, who outplayed the semifinals hopefuls for large chunks of the game"

"But it was no sure thing until Donald injected himself in the 80th minute after earlier imposing himself to spark Waikato's fightback following a fairly dismal opening spell for the visitors."

"Donald initiating their comeback in the 45th minute with an outstanding piece of individual brilliance which saw him bust the line at halfway following a scrum and outpacing the thin cover."

"But Donald had the last word, much to Manawatu's horror after they had contributed so much to a fine contest."

So if you think my posts are sensational better stick to the netball section to make you feel better.

If it had been Cruden that had pulled the strings and impressed in that game I would have been the first to come here and taste humble pie and I would have had no issue with that. But it didn't turn out that way. Donald dominated, and the fact it was Cruden that got the armchair ride behind his forward pack just made it even more significant.

 

[ranger]

Of course you cant swap players.

I only made that comment because one thing donald is good at is taking advantage of a good forward pack when it's in front of him. What he did tonight was put on a game winning performance behind a forward pack that for most of the game got it's but smacked combined with a rush defence coming at his backline and a 3rd choice halfback who works in the WRU office as an accountant feeding him the ball - he did have a busy game but his clearance from the rucks was padestrian compared to Leonard & Barlow.

If the waikato forward pack had dominated I'm sure ranger would have gone on about how easy donald had it and how the game was won by his forwards and had nothing to do with him. He says donald lacks vision and tactics and in the same breath he says donalds first try was weak because he took advantage of the Turbos 8 who was not 100% and sailed through a few tackles to score.

Yet it was the turbo's forwards who set the best platform by far and still donald won the game and I'm hearing how he actually heald the waikato team back...

Momment of the game IMO was just before full time you could see the Waikato team in a huddle and donald was shouting at the forwards. Looked pretty obvious he was telling them "get me a good quick ball and I'll win the game" and that's exactly what happened.

As for goal kicking the kicks cruden missed were regulation for donald - goes without saying. And also note that this is Crudens home ground, giving him and advantage with both the crowd noise and wind.

This is like talking to wall. That has been painted black, red and yellow.
There is a difference. Between running fast and picking out holes. And setting up the rest of your players.
If Donald had done that and was playing Fullback, then sure, great vision. Vision for a first five is playmaking and creating things for the rest of the backline. Donald was incapable of doing that.
Donald isn't good at taking advantage of a good forward pack, he can only operate a backline when he is on the front foot. If he isn't, like last night, he stops playing like a first five. Those two tries he scored were great for Waikato, but he showed nothing whatsoever to convince anyone that he was a good playmaker.

 

[Larksea]

you're observations dont match up with what's happening on the field ranger.

consider the fact that Waikato lost the terratory and contact area battle. moving the ball too far away from the forwards who were streatched most of the game as it was would have in most cases ended in turnovers because of the Superior turbos forward effort - most of the time the potential benefit did not outweigh the risk which was multiplied because waikato were making too many handeling errors - mostly caused by passionate Turbo's defence. Even having the Waikato forwards pick and go was ending in turnovers and those turnovers were being converted into points by the turbo's. Waikato spinning the ball in their own half was too risky as when the turbos forwards got hold of the ball the Waikato forwards couldn't keep them from walking over the advantage line with ease.

It should also be said there were a few times donald did see space and shift the ball and it worked out. You obviously ignored that.

Face it ranger, donald executed a game plan and it won the game. And the game plan was totally different to what he used last weekend. Because last weekend he sat behind a forward pack that had the upper hand span great passes and put his backs into space.

heck cruden got a lesson last night and Donald was the tutor yet you still think he should have done more? If that happened Cruden wouldn't have been able to look at himself in the mirror. Did you see the look on his face as donald was getting high 5's from his team?

 

[nickdnz]

This is like talking to wall. That has been painted black, red and yellow.
There is a difference. Between running fast and picking out holes. And setting up the rest of your players.
If Donald had done that and was playing Fullback, then sure, great vision. Vision for a first five is playmaking and creating things for the rest of the backline. Donald was incapable of doing that.
Donald isn't good at taking advantage of a good forward pack, he can only operate a backline when he is on the front foot. If he isn't, like last night, he stops playing like a first five. Those two tries he scored were great for Waikato, but he showed nothing whatsoever to convince anyone that he was a good playmaker.

Top points for consistancy though. Larksea doesn't allow logic to impere his judgment.

 

[Larksea]

Also the way you describe donalds running it sounds like all he can do is slowley accelerate to a not very impressive speed and only in a straight line and straight at players.

ranger he's scored what 5 trys in the last 4 weeks? And in doing so he's hit gaps and beaten players with speed, determination and change of direction.

If it's so easy how come everyone in the ITM cup isn't doing it?

 

[Larksea]

Top points for consistancy though. Larksea doesn't allow logic to impere his judgment.

]

Sorry "The Glorious One" is that suposed to hurt my feelings?

 

[Larksea]

I guess it must be logical to sugest that someone who has scored 5 trys in 4 weeks has a limiting unimpressive running game...? Yes you will have to explain to me the logic in that.

 

[Shaggy]

Really looking forward to the naming of this team ... hopefully whoever gets named as the 10s will get a fair go both in terms of playing time, and from the rugby public

 

[Larksea]

Really looking forward to the naming of this team ... hopefully whoever gets named as the 10s will get a fair go both in terms of playing time, and from the rugby public

yeah for sure, it's going to be a great squad what ever happens. The current AB squad is very strong and there is some great tallent on show in the ITM cup. hate to jinx it but if the AB's can win in hong kong they will be odds on to finish the whole season without a loss, which may be the first time ever? I'm not sure, I know a AB side john hart coached had a season with no losses and one draw.

As far as 10 goes at least there are options for carters backup and they are playing well.

only other question marks are Will Braid go and Will Gear go?

I cant see room for either, tough on Gear in particular but it just may be that only two spec wingers will go on tour and that would be Rokocoko & Jane. With Dagg and Toeava providing cover.

hard to pick the rest without knowing the makeup of the squad. 4 or 5 props? 2 or three hookers? two or three halfbacks? 5 or 6 loose forwards?

Will see on sunday

 

[osmond]

Rokocoko? I thought he was out of favour with the selectors...I'd rather see Dagg, Gear, Jane and Ranger as the wingers, or maybe Savea as a bolter.

 

[Shaggy]

Ok, i'm going to have a go at who I think they will take (not who I want them to take). I think it will be 16 forwards and 14 backs, with them only taking two specialist hookers and two specialist half backs, but they will have players on standby to cover in event of injury.

Hookers: Mealamu, Hore
Props: Franks x 2, Woodcock,Afoa
Locks: Thorn, Whitelock, Donnelly, Boric
Loose Forwards: Macaw, Kaino, Read, Messam, Vito, D.Braid
Half Backs: Cowan, Weepu
1st fives: Carter,Cruden,Slade
Centres: Nonu, Sonny-Bill Williams, Smith, Toeava
Wings/Full Backs: Jane, Dagg, Sivivatu, Mulliana, Ranger

If Hore is unfit Elliot (although i'd prefer Rutledge), If Sivivatu isn't fit, then Rokocoko

i'd like to see a young openside such as canterbury's Matt Todd, but they'll probably play it safe