All Blacks final World Cup squad?

[CaliRa1]

Funny thing about Sopoaga as a player of the future. He is 24. Barrett is also 24 but slightly younger. Cruden is still only 26 years old. There are also younger guys like Damien McKenzie, Ihaia West, Mitchell Hunt, Otere Black who could all become world class 10's (Black especially IMO).

I don't believe Sopoaga will overtake Cruden, and I'm not convinced he is a better player than Barrett either. I think people are jumping to conclusions on how good Sopoaga is. He had a good game away to South Africa. So did Tom Taylor. He ran the backline nicely for the Highlanders, but it's a little tough to say Barrett didn't do equally as well considering the Canes still won more game than the Highlanders (including beating them twice in regular season).

Well first of all no A Smith, Fekitoa, B Smith, Osborne or Manu in there 2nd meeting and it was only a 7 point game in the first meeting…Sopoaga and Perenara are already familiar with each other having both come through the Wellington Lions ranks and A Smith is his Highlanders teammate…So he has familiarity with the form Scrum Halves of NZ…
And
Once Carter says its all and done this is my FlyHalf depth 1-10…Sopoaga, Barrett, Cruden, West, D McKenzie, Black, M McKenzie, Hickey, Hunt & T Marshall…No J Marshall Slade or Taylor as they are taking their talents to the Northern Hemisphere…Black does have the opportunity to move his way up with more experience but ATM this is my Depth Chart…Marty Banks my 11th man

 

[nickdnz]

Well first of all no A Smith, Fekitoa, B Smith, Osborne or Manu in there 2nd meeting and it was only a 7 point game in the first meeting…Sopoaga and Perenara are already familiar with each other having both come through the Wellington Lions ranks and A Smith is his Highlanders teammate…So he has familiarity with the form Scrum Halves of NZ…
And
Once Carter says its all and done this is my FlyHalf depth 1-10…Sopoaga, Barrett, Cruden, West, D McKenzie, Black, M McKenzie, Hickey, Hunt & T Marshall…No J Marshall Slade or Taylor as they are taking their talents to the Northern Hemisphere…Black does have the opportunity to move his way up with more experience but ATM this is my Depth Chart…Marty Banks my 11th man

Where do I start?

It was only a 7 point difference in the final as well. My point was that Sopoaga didn't have a definitely better season than Barrett.

Sopoaga played for the Lions. Aaron Smith played for the Turbos. Aaron Smith has played a good amount of NPC with Aaron Cruden.

My point was that talking about Sopoaga as the future, doesn't really apply when he is older than Barrett and only 2 years younger than Cruden. The fact there are many younger players than Sopoaga who have just as much if not more potential was really my point. When Carter is done I would expect Cruden to slot back in at 10, Barrett as second choice and Sopoaga somewhere behind. I could be wrong, I guess we'll need more than one good Super Rugby season to see is more my point.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

That problem has been addressed.

You must give 3 days notice of a injury replacement before a game. Unless they get injured during training then it won't be a problem. Besides against the minnows in the group we could play anyone at halfback and still win, aside from Argentina.

but i thought if you get replaced you can't come back (or am i wrong?). they wouldn't risk either smith or perenara being out for the tournament just because they had a mior injury which would only make them unfit for a week or so. they'd ratehr leave them in the squad until they got better.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I think the injury concern/paranoia having a 3rd back up half back is overstated. Have a gamble, it's very unlikely we will be put in the situation we will have no specialized halfback available, and at the expense of a game changing player like Sopoanga, I think it's a decent calculated risk/gamble. Especially since you can ring in a replacement HB in 3 days notice.

The major injury paranoia I would have would be Carter, Barrett and Slade who are made of china.

this is just illogical. you are saying there is a small chance we will need a 3rd halfback. equally there is a small chance we will need a a 3rd first five, let alone a fourth. Is Sopoaga going to change games just because he can watch them form a closer distance? It's not like he'll be playing, at least not any important games, and we might as well just play ben franks at first five against georgia, it will make no difference. yeah maybe our first fives are injury prone, but I doubt we are more likely to need a fourth first five than a 3rd halfback.

 

[CaliRa1]

Where do I start?

It was only a 7 point difference in the final as well. My point was that Sopoaga didn't have a definitely better season than Barrett.

Sopoaga played for the Lions. Aaron Smith played for the Turbos. Aaron Smith has played a good amount of NPC with Aaron Cruden.

My point was that talking about Sopoaga as the future, doesn't really apply when he is older than Barrett and only 2 years younger than Cruden. The fact there are many younger players than Sopoaga who have just as much if not more potential was really my point. When Carter is done I would expect Cruden to slot back in at 10, Barrett as second choice and Sopoaga somewhere behind. I could be wrong, I guess we'll need more than one good Super Rugby season to see is more my point.

Once Dan Carter retires
My top #10s Barrett Sopoaga & Cruden
My top #9s A Smith & Perenara
Would those be your options?
You are right in saying it'll take more than just 1 great season to promote him to the top of the depth chart but in saying that Cruden has had a number of health issues & Barrett is returning from injury (given it happend in May)
Barrett has an obvious height advantage over the other 2 which could be seen as both a +ve and a -ve… IMO there isn't much of(if at all) a gap between them ATM
Barrett marginally more accurate kicker than the other 2 and marginally faster with the extra leg length… It takes more than stats to determine the better prospect though…
Debates like these must have gone on during the Spencer & Mehrtens (& Brown) era… Considering careers are sometimes over by age 30… Sopoaga & Barrett have another good 6 years to show us their talent

- - - Updated - - -

but i thought if you get replaced you can't come back (or am i wrong?). they wouldn't risk either smith or perenara being out for the tournament just because they had a mior injury which would only make them unfit for a week or so. they'd ratehr leave them in the squad until they got better.

The injury needs to be tournament ending before they can be replaced

 

[rugby_mad]

I wish this were so. Based on the players he has released to play , it appears he will leave behind Lima sopoaga and Charles piutau. He carries Colin slade & Israel . I hope I am wrong !

i would be really disappointed if Dagg was selected for RWC at the expense of Piutau, or any other better form wings at present... if Naholo recovers, he may just get the RWC ticket over Piutau, after all Piutau is heading overseas.

a hard call between Sopoaga and Slade, i like Slade but since we have Barrett that can cover wing or fullback, it makes more sense to have a specialist first-five and Sopoaga fits right into it.. similarly, Slade is going to FR after RWC, whereas Sopoaga remains in NZ.

 

[CaliRa1]

i would be really disappointed if Dagg was selected for RWC at the expense of Piutau, or any other better form wings at present...

a hard call between Sopoaga and Slade, i like Slade but since we have Barrett that can cover wing or fullback, it makes more sense to have a specialist first-five and Sopoaga fits right into it.

Definitely see your point Barrett & Slade play similar roles ATM with Carter still at the helm & Barrett is a better option IMO leaving room for Sopoaga a specialist 10 and as a 10 Sopoaga slightly edges Slade…
If they take Slade they also take Piutau
If they take Sopoaga they take Dagg
Unfortunately I don't think they'll take both Piutau & Dagg
I would though and leave SBW behind unfortunately

 

[TobesHodges]

If I'm honest I think, the all blacks should be looking at either Sopoaga or Otere black at 10 going forward after the World Cup.. Cruden and Barritt are to injury prone.

I think though Black needs to move club, maybe to the crusaders, because I don't think he will get the consistent game time ahead of Barritt that he needs..
I do think this kid could be the future given the right nurturing.

 

[Mcfadden]

My expectation would also be that Aaron Cruden would slot back into 10 after the World Cup. It depends how well he can come back from injury. Some players take a long time off and they're never the same again (i.e: Jason Eaton springs to mind). But Cruden was the first choice selection in that role before he got injured.

For me, I've seen enough of Barrett and while I love what he's capable of, I think he's much better coming off the bench. I'm sure there will be times where he can start in the 10 shirt, such as the EOYT, when there are injuries, and the odd RC game. But I don't think he's the long term solution of who our little general will be.

Sopoaga will be interesting. He and Cruden could have a little battle between them to see who will become our incumbent. I still wouldn't mind seeing Lima have a crack at inside centre, just to see what he's capable of. But at the moment that's just something in my own head. There's no indication that any other coach would like to test that out.

Agree that Black probably should have moved to the Crusaders. Ben Volavola and Richie Mo'unga have their talents I'm sure, but I think Otere could be on the cusp of something special if he had more regular game time. He's a sensible kid who seems like he could be a great playmaker. Then again, joining a franchise that seems to be employing absolute crap backline moves could be more harmful than helpful. Getting stuck in a side that shuffles like a penguin from side to side to side probably would not fairly reflect his ability.

 

[nickdnz]

If I'm honest I think, the all blacks should be looking at either Sopoaga or Otere black at 10 going forward after the World Cup.. Cruden and Barritt are to injury prone.

I think though Black needs to move club, maybe to the crusaders, because I don't think he will get the consistent game time ahead of Barritt that he needs..
I do think this kid could be the future given the right nurturing.

Unfortunately that would require Blackadder making a coaching decision that makes sense. They have already signed Richie Mo'unga (fair enough - he's a prospect from Canterbury), Marty McKenzie (a tad uninspired) and Ben Volavola (for what reason, who knows).

 

[CaliRa1]

My expectation would also be that Aaron Cruden would slot back into 10 after the World Cup. It depends how well he can come back from injury. Some players take a long time off and they're never the same again (i.e: Jason Eaton springs to mind). But Cruden was the first choice selection in that role before he got injured.

For me, I've seen enough of Barrett and while I love what he's capable of, I think he's much better coming off the bench. I'm sure there will be times where he can start in the 10 shirt, such as the EOYT, when there are injuries, and the odd RC game. But I don't think he's the long term solution of who our little general will be.

Sopoaga will be interesting. He and Cruden could have a little battle between them to see who will become our incumbent. I still wouldn't mind seeing Lima have a crack at inside centre, just to see what he's capable of. But at the moment that's just something in my own head. There's no indication that any other coach would like to test that out.

Agree that Black probably should have moved to the Crusaders. Ben Volavola and Richie Mo'unga have their talents I'm sure, but I think Otere could be on the cusp of something special if he had more regular game time. He's a sensible kid who seems like he could be a great playmaker. Then again, joining a franchise that seems to be employing absolute crap backline moves could be more harmful than helpful. Getting stuck in a side that shuffles like a penguin from side to side to side probably would not fairly reflect his ability.

Well he played 12 in U20s while 10 Anscombe & 15 Barrett so it's no too unfamiliar it would definitely be exciting to see all 3 of these guys on the field together
10 Cruden 12 Sopoaga 15 Barrett
Highly unlikely but no too farfetched

 

[CaliRa1]

Unfortunately that would require Blackadder making a coaching decision that makes sense. They have already signed Richie Mo'unga (fair enough - he's a prospect from Canterbury), Marty McKenzie (a tad uninspired) and Ben Volavola (for what reason, who knows).

Or even trying to get Simon Hickey from the Blues just someone other than Volavola
Donald playing for Waikato ITM could've been a more viable option as well

 

[nickdnz]

Or even trying to get Simon Hickey from the Blues just someone other than Volavola
Donald playing for Waikato ITM could've been a more viable option as well

Let's not get carried away...

 

[CaliRa1]

Cruden 89
Sopoaga 91
West 92

not large in stature
exceptional running game

IMO
Cruden marginally stronger running game
Sopoaga marginally stronger tactical kicking game
West stronger accuracy (goal kicker)

Cruden bad knees
Sopoaga bad tackler
West lacks command of the team ATM which comes with more reps & experience

 

[The Jones Boy]

There will be next to no experimentation from here on in.
Hansen will have his ideas in place and locked down and only injury, or a dramatic shift in a players form will alter that.

 

[easy2288]

With this information, we can roughly guess who is confirmed going and who is still under evaluation.

A little bit of this, but some of the names on the list will be going but haven't played a lot of rugby in the last 4-6 weeks, so a bit of match fitness will be needed.

Dont agreed. No way Hansen will not take the risk to get the "confirmed" players to play in ITM Cup and get injured. There are other ways to get match fitness

 

[Mcfadden]

I heard Dagg bagged 3 tries in an ITM Cup game this weekend? Not sure the quality of opposition, or if he merely finished off someone else's created opportunities, but it's still positive to hear. Better than being quiet. Which I actually thought Sopoaga was for Southland last night.

Dagg isn't cutting the mustard for me either at the moment, but if Hansen is going to pick him then I hope his running game can shoot up a few notches. Personally I wouldn't pick him at all, but I'm just thinking from the coaches perspective. Half the battle after an individual form slump, injuries and a ridiculously poor backline coaching staff at the Crusaders is getting your confidence back.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I wouldn't mind if Dagg was left behind, I really hope they take Piatau, he is looking a bit special.

 

[Larksea]

I think it's fair to say that Dagg will be in the WC squad like it or not. Hopefully sanity will prevail and Ben Smith will be the first choice fullback.

It's pretty obvious that Charles Piutau is currently on an absolute tear of great form. It's a huge shame he's leaving NZ but he needs to be selected for the WC and play as first choice 14 or 11 as Savea is well down on condition and form.

That makes things really tight in the outside backs.

Jane & Naholo - right now their selection is almost inconceivable, jane hasn't had a test this year and hasn't been in great form generally. And the injury just came at the worst time for Naholo.

the squad will be 13 or 14 backs and will look something like.

Smith, perenara, TKB
carter, barrett, (slade or sopoaga)
nonu, smith, sbw
smith, dagg, savea, Piutau

1 spot left listed rough order of chance to make squad:
Fekitoa/Skudder (hard to separate the two, maybe a slight edge to Fekitoa due to experience but Skudder had a big impact in those last two tests...)
Crotty
Naholo
Jane

its only when you write it down like this that you see how tight it actually is. Just like that there are going to be at least 3 guys to not make the squad who genuinely deserve too. It's going to be a similar situation in the forwards.

 

[TobesHodges]

I think it's fair to say that Dagg will be in the WC squad like it or not. Hopefully sanity will prevail and Ben Smith will be the first choice fullback.

It's pretty obvious that Charles Piutau is currently on an absolute tear of great form. It's a huge shame he's leaving NZ but he needs to be selected for the WC and play as first choice 14 or 11 as Savea is well down on condition and form.

That makes things really tight in the outside backs.

Jane & Naholo - right now their selection is almost inconceivable, jane hasn't had a test this year and hasn't been in great form generally. And the injury just came at the worst time for Naholo.

the squad will be 13 or 14 backs and will look something like.

Smith, perenara, TKB
carter, barrett, (slade or sopoaga)
nonu, smith, sbw
smith, dagg, savea, Piutau

1 spot left listed rough order of chance to make squad:
Fekitoa/Skudder (hard to separate the two, maybe a slight edge to Fekitoa due to experience but Skudder had a big impact in those last two tests...)
Crotty
Naholo
Jane

its only when you write it down like this that you see how tight it actually is. Just like that there are going to be at least 3 guys to not make the squad who genuinely deserve too. It's going to be a similar situation in the forwards.

Agree but I would take NMS over Dagg and Piutua.