All Blacks final World Cup squad?

[Kiwi_]

Corey Jane is out off it, no chance for him.

This is the strongest All Blacks starting 23:

1. Wyatt Crockett
2. Dane Coles
3. Owen Franks
4. Brodie Retallick
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Victor Vito
7. Richie McCaw
8. Kieran Read
9. Aaron Smith
10. Dan Carter
11. Nehe Milner Skudder
12. Ma'a Nonu
13. Conrad Smith
14. Charles Piutau
15. Ben Smith

Reverse:
16. Codie Taylor
17. Woodcock
18. Nepo Laulala
19. Jerome Kaino
20. Sam Cane
21. TJ Perenara
22. Beauden Barrett
23. Malakai Fekitoa



Savea will start obviously, but I think he will be the AB's biggest disappointment, I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't think his preparation has been good enough and he will not be up to it, he's still got a month, so hopefully in that time he can find where he needs to be, but there isn't sufficient amount of game time.

We don't need another specialized lock, our line out is good enough and Vito is great in the line out. Kaino can cover lock, Romano isn't good enough, the only other specialized lock that would make the team in NZ would be Patrick Tuipulotu, but since he's injured he's out.

 

[TobesHodges]

The only real position that is a head scratcher is 6, it's either Kaino/Vito(I'd go Vito) or Cane/Todd, depends on what Hanson wants..

 

[smartcooky]

Here's my 31 - a 14 backs v 17 forwards split

Wingers/Fullbacks:
B. Smith, Savea, Milner-Skudder, Piutau

Midfield:
Nonu, C. Smith, Fekitoa, Williams

Inside backs:
Carter, Barrett, Slade

Halfbacks:
A. Smith, Perenara, Kerr-Barlow

Loose Forwards:
McCaw (captain), Read, Kaino, Cane, Vito

Locks:
Retallick, Whitelock, Romano, Thrush

Props:
Woodcock, Franks, Crockett, Laulala, Moody

Hookers:
Mealamu, Coles, Taylor




Unlucky to miss out:
Slade's known versatility keeps Sopoaga out
I am great fan of Dagg, but there no room for him with only four "back three" players to go
Close between Broadhurst and Romano, but Romano's experience gets him the nod (Broadhurst a player for the future though.)
Nadolo too risky with injury recover time

 

[nickdnz]

Here's my 31 - a 14 backs v 17 forwards split

Wingers/Fullbacks:
B. Smith, Savea, Milner-Skudder, Piutau


Midfield:
Nonu, C. Smith, Fekitoa, Williams


Inside backs:
Carter, Barrett, Slade

Halfbacks:
A. Smith, Perenara, Kerr-Barlow

Loose Forwards:
McCaw (captain), Read, Kaino, Cane, Vito

Locks:
Retallick, Whitelock, Romano, Thrush

Props:
Woodcock, Franks, Crockett, Laulala, Moody

Hookers:
Mealamu, Coles, Taylor

Love that team, but I can't see Vito making it over Messam no matter how well he played last match. Would prefer Broadhurst to Romano as well...

 

[smartcooky]

Love that team, but I can't see Vito making it over Messam no matter how well he played last match. Would prefer Broadhurst to Romano as well...

Nick, our posts must have crossed. See the additonal comments about unlucky players.

I agree its close between Vito & Messam, but my reason for choosing Vito is that he is a good at 6, 7 or 8 and can play lock at a pinch. I don't see Messam as much good at 7, so I've gone for the extra versatility. Also, Messam can be error prone and can get a bit hotheaded at times; think the game just gone, and penalty that cost us the match in SA last year, plus some of the dumb stuff he did in Super Rugby this year.

 

[Kiwi_]

Pretty sure we won't take 4 specialized locks.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's my 31 - a 14 backs v 17 forwards split

Wingers/Fullbacks:
B. Smith, Savea, Milner-Skudder, Piutau


Midfield:
Nonu, C. Smith, Fekitoa, Williams


Inside backs:
Carter, Barrett, Slade

Halfbacks:
A. Smith, Perenara, Kerr-Barlow

Loose Forwards:
McCaw (captain), Read, Kaino, Cane, Messam, Vito

Locks:
Retallick, Whitelock, Romano

Props:
Woodcock, Franks, Crockett, Laulala, Moody

Hookers:
Mealamu, Coles, Taylor


Kaino and Vito can cover lock, not a big deal here, unless freak injuries to both Retallick and Whitelock occur, then we will have to ring in reinforcements.

The RWC is going to be won on the back 3 as well, need as much stamina, versatility and depth we can in this area.


Taking 4 specialized locks substantially weakens the squad. Even having 3 in the starting squad does, given Broadhurst (haven't seen enough of to give a true judgement) and Romano aren't really good enough.

 

[Shaggy]

Pretty sure we won't take 4 specialized locks.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's my 31 - a 14 backs v 17 forwards split

Wingers/Fullbacks:
B. Smith, Savea, Milner-Skudder, Piutau


Midfield:
Nonu, C. Smith, Fekitoa, Williams


Inside backs:
Carter, Barrett, Slade

Halfbacks:
A. Smith, Perenara, Kerr-Barlow

Loose Forwards:
McCaw (captain), Read, Kaino, Cane, Messam, Vito

Locks:
Retallick, Whitelock, Romano

Props:
Woodcock, Franks, Crockett, Laulala, Moody

Hookers:
Mealamu, Coles, Taylor


Kaino and Vito can cover lock, not a big deal here, unless freak injuries to both Retallick and Whitelock occur, then we will have to ring in reinforcements.

The RWC is going to be won on the back 3 as well, need as much stamina, versatility and depth we can in this area.


Taking 4 specialized locks substantially weakens the squad. Even having 3 in the starting squad does, given Broadhurst (haven't seen enough of to give a true judgement) and Romano aren't really good enough.

That's pretty close to my current thinking, although I'm not totally sure they'll take three half backs; Surely if they intended to do that, they'd have given Kerr-Barlow (or Ellis or whoever) some/more game time in the Black Jersey. If they do this, it leaves room for the fourth lock, or even the chance to gamble on Naholo's fitness, but my gut feeling is that they'll take Sopoaga.

 

[nickdnz]

Nick, our posts must have crossed. See the additonal comments about unlucky players.

I agree its close between Vito & Messam, but my reason for choosing Vito is that he is a good at 6, 7 or 8 and can play lock at a pinch. I don't see Messam as much good at 7, so I've gone for the extra versatility. Also, Messam can be error prone and can get a bit hotheaded at times; think the game just gone, and penalty that cost us the match in SA last year, plus some of the dumb stuff he did in Super Rugby this year.

Definitely don't have to sell me on Vito over Messam - but the comparative chances Hansen has afforded Messam game time instead of Vito makes me think it won't happen.

 

[Kiwi_]

Definitely don't have to sell me on Vito over Messam - but the comparative chances Hansen has afforded Messam game time instead of Vito makes me think it won't happen.

Vito has been given pretty good game time in the build up, more than Messam.

Not taking TKB would open up a spot for Sopoanga, taking 2 half backs could be a risk we should take, to make room for Sopoanga. Given Dans injury concerns, it's not a bad idea. Smith and TJ are not injury prone either.

But I've heard from many people that Lima is not going..

 

[Mcfadden]

It's a shame Brad Webber hasn't been trailed/experienced enough at the top level to be taken to this WC. He's the type of guy who would just slot in so well into this environment imo, and I reckon he probably has a cooler head on him than TJ Perenara and could overtake him as Smith's backup in time. Nothing amazes me about TKB.

Usually I side with the coaches about giving injured players a chance, and I think the public can be way too harsh at times. But I've never been a fan of the guy's decision making, and his form hasn't been blockbuster. I just hope if we get an injury crisis at halfback that he can step up. Ellis is great in some ways, but overall he's too slow. Pulu is like a headless chicken on crack.

 

[Shaggy]

Vito has been given pretty good game time in the build up, more than Messam.

Not taking TKB would open up a spot for Sopoanga, taking 2 half backs could be a risk we should take, to make room for Sopoanga. Given Dans injury concerns, it's not a bad idea. Smith and TJ are not injury prone either.

Yep, I can't see that taking only two halfbacks is a great risk, they could probably play Slade there in some of the pool games anyway, but should serious injury occur to either Perenara or Smith, TKB will probably have a bit more ITM cup game time under his belt by then anyway.

 

[Kiwi_]

It's a shame Brad Webber hasn't been trailed/experienced enough at the top level to be taken to this WC. He's the type of guy who would just slot in so well into this environment imo, and I reckon he probably has a cooler head on him than TJ Perenara and could overtake him as Smith's backup in time. Nothing amazes me about TKB.

Usually I side with the coaches about giving injured players a chance, and I think the public can be way too harsh at times. But I've never been a fan of the guy's decision making, and his form hasn't been blockbuster. I just hope if we get an injury crisis at halfback that he can step up. Ellis is great in some ways, but overall he's too slow. Pulu is like a headless chicken on crack.

With TKB they want a physical option at half back, Smith, TJ and Weber are all clones of each other more or less.

 

[Mcfadden]

I suppose you're right about the physical element. I'm not sure if that means much though if he isn't electing to take the right decisions (which is just my opinion).

Kinda like Dagg - yeah he has the kicking skills, but overall is he actually playing any good?

 

[Kiwi_]

I suppose you're right about the physical element. I'm not sure if that means much though if he isn't electing to take the right decisions (which is just my opinion).

Kinda like Dagg - yeah he has the kicking skills, but overall is he actually playing any good?

Hansen doesn't punish injured players. Which is pretty cool, TKB hasn't been outstanding since coming back, but he's been solid. He's experienced as well and a different type of player to the other 3 so definitely gets the nod, and let's be honest, he's way better than Andy Ellis.

 

[Mcfadden]

he's way better than Andy Ellis.

Yup, for sure. It'll be interesting to see if the hierarchy of half back changes after the WC. With a couple of young players getting more Super Rugby experience under their belt, we might be spoiled for choice.

 

[Shaggy]

With TKB they want a physical option at half back, Smith, TJ and Weber are all clones of each other more or less.

I'd agree that Weber is similar to Smith, in that his strengths are his quickness to the breakdown and accurate pass, but I think Perenara's strengths are his running game, and the support lines he runs; I'd argue that he is a physical option at halfback, and that Perenara and TKB were in a tussle prior to TKB's injury to fulfill that role for the ABs

Hansen doesn't punish injured players. Which is pretty cool, TKB hasn't been outstanding since coming back, but he's been solid. He's experienced as well and a different type of player to the other 3 so definitely gets the nod, and let's be honest, he's way better than Andy Ellis.

TKB can show moments of brilliance, but he can also takes some high risk/stupid options at times; Andy Ellis is probably too slow to the breakdown/clearing the ruck these days, but he does know how to close out games ... I wouldn't take either TBH, I'd take just the two halfbacks, and have whoever's next in line on standby, just in case the worst thing happens

 

[nickdnz]

Vito has been given pretty good game time in the build up, more than Messam.

Not taking TKB would open up a spot for Sopoanga, taking 2 half backs could be a risk we should take, to make room for Sopoanga. Given Dans injury concerns, it's not a bad idea. Smith and TJ are not injury prone either.

But I've heard from many people that Lima is not going..

Vito had 20 more minutes of rugby than Messam, both playing over 2 games. Based on selections over the last four years I would say Messam was the more likely candidate to go (there was plenty of talk Vito wouldn't even make this squad). Again, I personally prefer Vito over Messam, but I'm not convinced they'll drop Messam.

If I had my way it would be Brad Webber filling that third halfback spot, but there is no doubt they will take three halfbacks. If Daniel Carter has an injury they will have to make a decision on whether to replace him (in which case Sopoaga would come in), or if there is a chance he will recover by a week or so, to just play Barrett/Slade. Unfortunately if a halfback had the same injury (even a minor one which keeps him out for only a match) we would have to replace him because we would need a halfback backup. Not sure I'd want Aaron Smith being ruled out of the tournament should he pull a muscle the day before a match.

 

[Shaggy]

Vito had 20 more minutes of rugby than Vito, both playing over 2 games. Based on selections over the last four years I would say Messam was the more likely candidate to go (there was plenty of talk Vito wouldn't even make this squad). Again, I personally prefer Vito over Messam, but I'm not convinced they'll drop Messam.

If I had my way it would be Brad Webber filling that third halfback spot, but there is no doubt they will take three halfbacks. If Daniel Carter has an injury they will have to make a decision on whether to replace him (in which case Sopoaga would come in), or if there is a chance he will recover by a week or so, to just play Barrett/Slade. Unfortunately if a halfback had the same injury (even a minor one which keeps him out for only a match) we would have to replace him because we would need a halfback backup. Not sure I'd want Aaron Smith being ruled out of the tournament should he pull a muscle the day before a match.

I think there is some doubt as to whether they'll take three halfbacks: I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Hansen was considering taking the risk; the chances of the whole squad going through the tournament without a serious injury, are pretty low, so they might replace, for example, an injured five-eighth with a halfback, if they chose to include four number 10's in the original squad

 

[Kiwi_]

Vito had 20 more minutes of rugby than Vito, both playing over 2 games. Based on selections over the last four years I would say Messam was the more likely candidate to go (there was plenty of talk Vito wouldn't even make this squad). Again, I personally prefer Vito over Messam, but I'm not convinced they'll drop Messam.

If I had my way it would be Brad Webber filling that third halfback spot, but there is no doubt they will take three halfbacks. If Daniel Carter has an injury they will have to make a decision on whether to replace him (in which case Sopoaga would come in), or if there is a chance he will recover by a week or so, to just play Barrett/Slade. Unfortunately if a halfback had the same injury (even a minor one which keeps him out for only a match) we would have to replace him because we would need a halfback backup. Not sure I'd want Aaron Smith being ruled out of the tournament should he pull a muscle the day before a match.

True he did to, I was thinking Messam got less time vs South Africa.

I think with this selection head ache, Vito being too good to leave out and Messam being too much of an integral player of the last few years set up that we will drop a specialized lock to make room for them, leaving us with 3 specialized locks.

Makes sense, we've tried it and it's the best option, so I think they will both go.

- - - Updated - - -

Given the injury rule - 3 days notice, I still think it's not too much of a risk to only take 2 halfbacks..

 

[ShonH]

I think I would find a way to have Sopoaga on the squad. Not sure why he seems to be the odd man out on most lists. I believe him to be the 10 of the future and he is currently better than any he would play against in the WC.