All Blacks final World Cup squad?

[Tony Manx]

Nope. The lesson from last week is to ignore the fickle ramblings of half our kiwi members. Funny how Conrad Smith hasn't been congratulated after this match..

Hear,hear!!

 

[Kiwi_]

Nick, you really think last week didn't highlight issues? Fortunately they put in work to fix these issues and we can vent here before they do so discussing it, been satisfied when we see the appropriate changes made or tweaks to improve the performance.

What contributed to this result, was our burning desire to rectify last weeks result, the right changes and the AB deal our revenge very well and use it as a tool of motivation. Cheika's ridiculous selection of Cooper and of course fortress Eden Park. I really wanted Cheika to come here and try win at all costs and see what his starting teams made of. Really stupid to experiment as much as he did. Last week was a winning formula he had found... keep it and tweak it slightly if you need to. Australia had already lost before going on to the park.

 

[austingtir]

Nope. The lesson from last week is to ignore the fickle ramblings of half our kiwi members. Funny how Conrad Smith hasn't been congratulated after this match..

I dont see whats to congratulate? He played how he should've been bloody well playing in the other two matches FFS. And Nonu was the standout for me out of the two of them.

 

[nickdnz]

Nick, you really think last week didn't highlight issues? Fortunately they put in work to fix these issues and we can vent here before they do so discussing it, been satisfied when we see the appropriate changes made or tweaks to improve the performance.

What contributed to this result, was our burning desire to rectify last weeks result, the right changes and the AB deal our revenge very well and use it as a tool of motivation. Cheika's ridiculous selection of Cooper and of course fortress Eden Park. I really wanted Cheika to come here and try win at all costs and see what his starting teams made of. Really stupid to experiment as much as he did. Last week was a winning formula he had found... keep it and tweak it slightly if you need to. Australia had already lost before going on to the park.

The point I was making is that apparently we don't have players who can ruck, or players quick enough to make tackles, or a front row that can scrummage. The calls to replace players by some members was outstanding (and continues with two quiet games from Savea, now he is apparently one dimensional, useless and fourth choice if you believe some of our members.

Obviously this week showed we do in fact have players who can do that. What we needed was to be more accurate and a change of tactics around the ruck. Not a huge change in personal for a bunch of unproven players. The sensationalism and hyperbole surrounding player performances is beyond ridiculous.

 

[james5000]

Milner Skudder has had a pretty remarkable rise. I didn't think he had a realistic chance before his debut but 2 good games and he may be hard to leave out.

I am a big Dagg fan but even I would struggle to pick him in my team.

DC deserves to go on the basis of runs on the board but he hasn't been better than his competition in 2015 and I would bet good money that he won't last this world cup either.

I wouldn't pick Vito if it meant I had to drop Messam but if it was Thrush/Romano I would consider it maybe.

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Savea will be one of the players of the tournament.

 

[Kiwi_]

When you're showing up to an All Black RWC boot camp just 2 months out from the tournament out off shape, so out off shape he wasn't even in the squad for the South Africa game and then when he was finally selected for the Australian game and played terrible then that's not good enough at this level, this isn't a school boys Rugby team where you can slack off over the holidays then return to training and she'll be right, this is the biggest tournament of their careers and a Nations hopes and a lot of peoples dreams weighing on their shoulders. You'd expect better effort mate and we have the tools to replace him if necessary.

 

[Mcfadden]

Obviously this week showed we do in fact have players who can do that. What we needed was to be more accurate and a change of tactics around the ruck. Not a huge change in personal for a bunch of unproven players. The sensationalism and hyperbole surrounding player performances is beyond ridiculous.

Yup, pretty much this a million times over. I do think one or two very subtle changes could be made now and then, like Crockett being introduced into our strongest side. But Woodcock still has his strengths, brings mountains of experience, and can hang with the best of them. Beyond that, and maybe giving Sam Cane some more game time, I see no reason for radical changes. I thought people were way over the top after that loss to Australia. It was just a bad day at the office, the wrong tactics were used, and the ABs got outplayed as a result. It's no big deal. At worst there are some things to work on. And I'd take that any day over learning nothing.

 

[Kiwi_]

Yup, pretty much this a million times over. I do think one or two very subtle changes could be made now and then, like Crockett being introduced into our strongest side. But Woodcock still has his strengths, brings mountains of experience, and can hang with the best of them. Beyond that, and maybe giving Sam Cane some more game time, I see no reason for radical changes. I thought people were way over the top after that loss to Australia. It was just a bad day at the office, the wrong tactics were used, and the ABs got outplayed as a result. It's no big deal. At worst there are some things to work on. And I'd take that any day over learning nothing.

Man I wouldn't rest on our laurels like that and quickly right it off as a one of.. we played poorly vs Samoa, South Africa and Australia, so it wasn't just a big stressful fickle rantings.

 

[nickdnz]

When you're showing up to an All Black RWC boot camp just 2 months out from the tournament out off shape, so out off shape he wasn't even in the squad for the South Africa game and then when he was finally selected for the Australian game and played terrible then that's not good enough at this level, this isn't a school boys Rugby team where you can slack off over the holidays then return to training and she'll be right, this is the biggest tournament of their careers and a Nations hopes and a lot of peoples dreams weighing on their shoulders. You'd expect better effort mate and we have the tools to replace him if necessary.

For the million and second time, Savea had an asthma attack in South Africa. That was why he wasn't picked. There is a difference between having asthma and being unfit...

He was hardly terrible in either test. Quiet yes.

 

[Kiwi_]

For the million and second time, Savea had an asthma attack in South Africa. That was why he wasn't picked. There is a difference between having asthma and being unfit...

He was hardly terrible in either test. Quiet yes.

Hansen said he showed up to training overweight and not match fit. Piutau and Skudder have both played way better in all their games.

 

[nzlizard]

I don't really think Osbourne is anywhere near All Blacks material, although he's a very solid player. I've been surprised by the amount of whispers there have been this year about how he should be included in the ABs. I don't see any aspect to his game that would baffle or really make international teams struggle. He's a big dude who has done some pretty cool things with an awesome pack in front of him. Nothing more nothing less.

Agree completely, great player and if he has another cracker season than maybe, but he has nothing on the others contending.

Savea was one of the best players in the world last year! Then he had a good Super Rugby season. Now he has had two indifferent test matches. Surely the lesson we should have gleamed from last night is not to be so reactionary?

Finalist in the IRB player of the year awards last year he was.

Nope. The lesson from last week is to ignore the fickle ramblings of half our kiwi members. Funny how Conrad Smith hasn't been congratulated after this match..

Biggest thing with Smith is the errors that are creeping in, 2-8 years ago the one back you could always rely on to be solid was Smith, in the last couple of years he has started to look human again, his average games seem to getting closer together.

For the million and second time, Savea had an asthma attack in South Africa. That was why he wasn't picked. There is a difference between having asthma and being unfit...

He was hardly terrible in either test. Quiet yes.

The ball has not gone his way in the last 3-4 weeks, we all know what he is capable of, he has proven this over the last 2-3 years.

 

[Kiwi_]

Yes we all know what Julian is capable of, but I've explained the reasoning of my concern, it's not just "fickle" supporting.

Why is Julian showing up to training overweight and having asthma attacks? He's been out on the boozer.

 

[nickdnz]

Biggest thing with Smith is the errors that are creeping in, 2-8 years ago the one back you could always rely on to be solid was Smith, in the last couple of years he has started to look human again, his average games seem to getting closer together.

We will have to agree to disagree on Conrad Smith. He had a great Super Rugby campaign, tackled at 90% - was probably the form center of the tournament. Against South Africa he had a quiet game. Not a big deal for the first international of the season, plenty of players looked very average against Samoa. It looks to me like his is still consistently making the right decisions, straightening the line and running hard or distributing at the right times. He has tackled at exactly 90% this year for the All Blacks. For the record Fekitoa is tackling at 58% for the All Blacks this year..

 

[The Jones Boy]

I think the OP is on the money.

 

[Kiwi_]

We will have to agree to disagree on Conrad Smith. He had a great Super Rugby campaign, tackled at 90% - was probably the form center of the tournament. Against South Africa he had a quiet game. Not a big deal for the first international of the season, plenty of players looked very average against Samoa. It looks to me like his is still consistently making the right decisions, straightening the line and running hard or distributing at the right times. He has tackled at exactly 90% this year for the All Blacks. For the record Fekitoa is tackling at 58% for the All Blacks this year..

Fekitoa is been asked to pressure the ball carrier a lot more. Rush at the line. He does the same for the Highlanders.. Stats don't always tell a story, sometimes you have to watch players impact in the game, Fekitoa played a huge part in our South African victory.

 

[nickdnz]

Fekitoa is been asked to pressure the ball carrier a lot more. Rush at the line. He does the same for the Highlanders.. Stats don't always tell a story, sometimes you have to watch players impact in the game, Fekitoa played a huge part in our South African victory.

It's interesting we can excuse Highlander's players for missing nearly half their tackles this year - but not Savea (who despite criticisms of his defence is completing tackles more than Fekitoa) or Conrad Smith (who has been one of the best defenders - one missed tackle on Kreil aside).

You are right that stats don't tell the whole story - but when players are being signalled out as making mistakes - it is only fair we do the same for others.

As for Fekitoa being excellend against South Africa - he was alright. Again defensively he only made 1 of his four tackle attempts. Looking good at breaking the line is only one aspect of play - Conrad Smith missed 1 tackle in 6 and people were criticizing whether he was still effective defensively. As we don't play a rushing defence but rather a sliding defence, Fekitoa rushing out of the line is a liability. Sure it's great when it pays off, the stats would suggest that is around half of the time. The other half the team is under pressure.

 

[Kiwi_]

Then that's Hansens call, he's obviously asking Fekitoa to make that effort because the pay off is high an he's using him late in games to come on and provide that attacking edge in defense, when we usually get the momentum going. To say he was just "ok" in the South African game is a pretty big devaluation after a great flat ball and an excellent line break, both of which ended up with tries and I haven't criticized Conrad much at all, in fact backed him when he was given criticism after the South African game. Besides the stats are lopsided because he's played less and the games are at different stages, so different things are being asked.

Julian isn't providing us with enough positives at the moment and his lack of commitment to his fitness is a huge concern, watching the games, Fekitoa has overall had more of an impact than Savea has had in the 2 complete matches he's been given as a opposed to the 1 complete game (time added up) Fekitoa has been given. Savea's going to be starting anyway, but I'm disappointed with his lack of preparation for the RWC and I'm sure Hansen is to.

 

[ShonH]

I would have liked to have seen Ardie Savea on the team.

 

[easy2288]

All Blacks release 17 players to ITM Cup

Source:




The following players have been released by the All Blacks to play in the ITM Cup for their respective provinces.

Beauden Barrett of the All Blacks

The following players are available, if required, for Week 2 this week:

* Cory Jane and Jeremy Thrush (for Wellington vs. North Harbour, Auckland, 7.35PM Thursday 20 August)
* Tawera Kerr-Barlow and Liam Messam (for Waikato vs. Manawatu, Palmerston North, 2.35PM Saturday 22 August)
* Lima Sopoaga (for Southland vs. Northland, Whangarei, 5.35PM Saturday 22 August)
* Israel Dagg (for Hawke's Bay vs. Otago, Dunedin, 7.35PM Saturday 22 August)
* Charlie Faumuina and Charles Piutau (for Auckland vs. Taranaki, Auckland, 2.35PM Sunday 23 August)
* Ryan Crotty Joe Moody, Patrick Osborne and Matt Todd (for Canterbury vs. Counties Manukau, 4.35PM Sunday 23 August)

The following players are available, if required, for Week 3 next week:

* Sam Cane (for Bay of Plenty vs. Southland, Tauranga, 7.35PM Wednesday 26 August)
* Cory Jane, Jeremy Thrush and Victor Vito (for Wellington vs. Northland, Wellington, 7.35PM Saturday 29 August)
* Israel Dagg and Ben Franks (for Hawke's Bay vs. Counties Manukau, Pukekohe, 7.35PM Friday 28 August)
* Charlie Faumuina and Charles Piutau (for Auckland) and Ryan Crotty Joe Moody, Patrick Osborne and Matt Todd (for Canterbury) for their match in Auckland, 2.35PM Saturday 29 August
* Beauden Barrett and James Broadhurst (Taranaki vs. Otago, New Plymouth, 5.35PM Saturday 29 August)

With this information, we can roughly guess who is confirmed going and who is still under evaluation.

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[austingtir]

Is Osbourne playing for Canterbury or Counties?

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I would have liked to have seen Ardie Savea on the team.

He's like the 5th best openside in the country... if he's lucky.

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We will have to agree to disagree on Conrad Smith. He had a great Super Rugby campaign, tackled at 90% - was probably the form center of the tournament. Against South Africa he had a quiet game. Not a big deal for the first international of the season, plenty of players looked very average against Samoa. It looks to me like his is still consistently making the right decisions, straightening the line and running hard or distributing at the right times. He has tackled at exactly 90% this year for the All Blacks. For the record Fekitoa is tackling at 58% for the All Blacks this year..

Against SA he had an absolute shocker man. All I can assume is you didnt watch the game very closely to say he had a quiet game is just having a bloody laugh. Even Conrad's man enough to admit he played like absolute ****.....

That said he's our first choice 13 and iv got totally no problem with that he showed enough in the second Australia game to convince me anyway.