All Blacks final World Cup squad?

[smartcooky]

True he did to, I was thinking Messam got less time vs South Africa.

I think with this selection head ache, Vito being too good to leave out and Messam being too much of an integral player of the last few years set up that we will drop a specialized lock to make room for them, leaving us with 3 specialized locks.

Makes sense, we've tried it and it's the best option, so I think they will both go.

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Given the injury rule - 3 days notice, I still think it's not too much of a risk to only take 2 halfbacks..

Its to our advantage too that the ITM Cup will continue through the RWC, so we have our fringe players getting real game time if they are called upon as a replacement.

 

[nickdnz]

I think I would find a way to have Sopoaga on the squad. Not sure why he seems to be the odd man out on most lists. I believe him to be the 10 of the future and he is currently better than any he would play against in the WC.

Funny thing about Sopoaga as a player of the future. He is 24. Barrett is also 24 but slightly younger. Cruden is still only 26 years old. There are also younger guys like Damien McKenzie, Ihaia West, Mitchell Hunt, Otere Black who could all become world class 10's (Black especially IMO).

I don't believe Sopoaga will overtake Cruden, and I'm not convinced he is a better player than Barrett either. I think people are jumping to conclusions on how good Sopoaga is. He had a good game away to South Africa. So did Tom Taylor. He ran the backline nicely for the Highlanders, but it's a little tough to say Barrett didn't do equally as well considering the Canes still won more game than the Highlanders (including beating them twice in regular season).

 

[Kiwi_]

I think I would find a way to have Sopoaga on the squad. Not sure why he seems to be the odd man out on most lists. I believe him to be the 10 of the future and he is currently better than any he would play against in the WC.

It's just largely due to other players having more experience, Slade is a pretty crucial member of the team and Barrett has been there for a long time and is a good player. Lima is good, but he hasn't done enough or so to put it, the others haven't played their way out off the squad. Hopefully as mentioned we can make room for him by dropping a halfback.

 

[Mcfadden]

Forget Sopoaga. Stephen Donald is coming back to play for Wikato, and I guess he will be on standby.

 

[Kiwi_]

Haha..

Stephen Donald. I love his story, had some bad games in the black shirt and got exiled to 5th string first 5, comes on and kicks what turned out to be the winning penalty. Underrated player in a lot of ways, definitely not the terrible player people make him out to be.

 

[TobesHodges]

Fly half in a number 8's body, they loved him at Bath..

 

[The Jones Boy]

Fly half in a number 8's body, they loved him at Bath..

Ha ha, thats an excellent quote.
Stephen Donald was an excellent servant for Waikato rugby where he was cherished and adored for many long years.
He did seem to get a bit over awed when he donned the black jersey but they persevered with him for a long time because his form in S12/15 and at provincial level was so consistently good.
Turns out, Graham Henry knew better than most.
Lot to be said for white baiting as a preparation method for winning the RWC.

 

[smartcooky]

Forget Sopoaga. Stephen Donald is coming back to play for Wikato, and I guess he will be on standby.

Only if he goes whitebaitin'

 

[Kiwi_]

Only if he goes whitebaitin'

Just saw that on the breakdown.. what a laugh haha.

 

[ShonH]

It's just largely due to other players having more experience, Slade is a pretty crucial member of the team and Barrett has been there for a long time and is a good player. Lima is good, but he hasn't done enough or so to put it, the others haven't played their way out off the squad. Hopefully as mentioned we can make room for him by dropping a halfback.

I guess this is a good problem to have: debating multiple options that all would be better than what the other teams in the world have to offer. I would lean towards Sopoaga, but have no issue with all in the discussion.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I guess this is a good problem to have: debating multiple options that all would be better than what the other teams in the world have to offer. I would lean towards Sopoaga, but have no issue with all in the discussion.

I don't think they will drop a halfback. a halfback is needed on the reserves, therefore two halfbacks are needed. If one halfback gets a small injury that puts them out for a week or two he can either be replaced (adn not be allowed to come back) or they'll have to do with no halfback reserve for one or two weeks. clearly this situation is not ideal. thereofre tehy won't take less than three halfbacks.

there is no need for four first fives either. Lima could still make it though, because we don't necessarily need two utility first fives. Lima could start teh midweek games with barrett on teh reserves in all games. slade hasn't done much with his limited opportunities as a utility player anyhow.

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It's a shame Brad Webber hasn't been trailed/experienced enough at the top level to be taken to this WC. He's the type of guy who would just slot in so well into this environment imo, and I reckon he probably has a cooler head on him than TJ Perenara and could overtake him as Smith's backup in time. Nothing amazes me about TKB.

Usually I side with the coaches about giving injured players a chance, and I think the public can be way too harsh at times. But I've never been a fan of the guy's decision making, and his form hasn't been blockbuster. I just hope if we get an injury crisis at halfback that he can step up. Ellis is great in some ways, but overall he's too slow. Pulu is like a headless chicken on crack.

I agree with pretty much all of this. Ellis is about a year too late. his form last year was good enough, but he's just gotten slower in both his passing and his movement around the park.
perenara isn't great under pressure.
I can't get over TKBs tunnel vision toward the ball when running to a ruck, without looking around to see where others are, then he picks the ball up before looking around, and then passes it. to be fair he's gotten better since he first started playing top level. but he just doesn't seem like a smart rugby player.

we're pretty thin in the halfback department to be honest.

 

[CaliRa1]

14 Backs 17 Forwards
5 Outside Backs B Smith, Savea, Milner-Skudder, Dagg & Piutau
4 Midfield Nonu C Smith Fekitoa SBW
3 FlyHalves Carter Barrett Sopoaga
2 ScrumHalves A Smith Perenara
6 Loose Forwards Read McCaw Kaino Vito Cane Messam
3 Locks Retallick Whitelock Romano
5 Props O Franks Woodcock Laualala B Franks Faumuina*
3 Hookers Coles Mealamu Taylor

*If he's ok to go… might be too much of a risk… If not then Moody or Crockett…I think Crockett goes though with experience winning out…

This would be my ideal squad right now given all of the injuries...Don't see why TKB needs to go…Just leave him on standby…Based on form and familiarity with the ScrumHalves I take Sopoaga over Slade…Give Sopoaga 2:1(Starts:Reserve) Barrett 1:5 Carter 4:1…Not taking any injured outside backs either…We've got a stable of adequate replacements so try for 2019…Sorry Naholo and Jane…Piutau slots in on the Left side when Savea is being rested…Dagg takes breaks for B Smith…Right side cycled between everyone not named Savea…SBW isn't as effective with C Smith on his outside so don't play them together…

 

[Mcfadden]

Not sure about Faumuina going. He has barely (if at all?) played over the last while, and surely it would now take more than a couple of ITM games to get back to his best. I think he should just take it slow and steady for awhile. Having neck surgery and then getting knocked out surely can't be healthy. Crockett, Woodcock, Owen Franks are all certainties imo. Ben Franks has had a good Super campaign this year. And if they're going to take a 5th then while Nepo Laulala isn't very experienced, I think he's shown promise.

 

[The Jones Boy]

If the squad is close to that list we'll be in good shape, the boys need to be fired up against Argentina and then idling nicely without injuries for the rest of the pool games and then lift to maximum for the knockout stages because it's only three games.
I know there Kiwi's back home are whining about the lack of competition in our group but the upside is the boys should come through comfortably with a minimum of injuries and be ready to SMASH the opposition in the quarter final, which with any luck will be against the Frogs at the Millennium (without ragbag Barnes hopefully) because i have tickets for that.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

14 Backs 17 Forwards
5 Outside Backs B Smith, Savea, Milner-Skudder, Dagg & Piutau
4 Midfield Nonu C Smith Fekitoa SBW
3 FlyHalves Carter Barrett Sopoaga
2 ScrumHalves A Smith Perenara
6 Loose Forwards Read McCaw Kaino Vito Cane Messam
3 Locks Retallick Whitelock Romano
5 Props O Franks Woodcock Laualala B Franks Faumuina*
3 Hookers Coles Mealamu Taylor

*If he's ok to go… might be too much of a risk… If not then Moody or Crockett…I think Crockett goes though with experience winning out…

This would be my ideal squad right now given all of the injuries...Don't see why TKB needs to go…Just leave him on standby…Based on form and familiarity with the ScrumHalves I take Sopoaga over Slade…Give Sopoaga 2:1(Starts:Reserve) Barrett 1:5 Carter 4:1…Not taking any injured outside backs either…We've got a stable of adequate replacements so try for 2019…Sorry Naholo and Jane…Piutau slots in on the Left side when Savea is being rested…Dagg takes breaks for B Smith…Right side cycled between everyone not named Savea…SBW isn't as effective with C Smith on his outside so don't play them together…

The ABs will never just take 2 scrum halves. What if one gets injured you are down to one specialist scrum half I a match day 23.

 

[Kiwi_]

The ABs will never just take 2 scrum halves. What if one gets injured you are down to one specialist scrum half I a match day 23.

That problem has been addressed.

You must give 3 days notice of a injury replacement before a game. Unless they get injured during training then it won't be a problem. Besides against the minnows in the group we could play anyone at halfback and still win, aside from Argentina.

 

[CaliRa1]

Its just my ideal I'm not the All Blacks selector if I were to take another ScrumHalve it would be Weber or Drummond on talent alone…But because neither has had much exposure to super rugby let alone the international game I don't think they would take either of them…TKB (2nd/3rd best SH in NZ before he got injured and Perenara smashed it in the super rugby this year) or Andy Ellis (Experience) are their best available options and I'd have to go with Ellis due to experience and familiarity with Carter…TKB is a more athletic option to Ellis but No Cruden in the side so less familiarity with the remaining FlyHalves…I prefer TKB as a player and athlete to Ellis though…If he were healthy much earlier and had played a little more this year I would definitely have gone with him as a 3rd option…If they do take a 3rd ScrumHalve I believe the selectors would have dropped SBW or Piutau…I like both of these players they each have massive upside…SBW because what I saw in Sydney wasn't World Cup worthy…And Piutau because thats just the way it goes sometimes…Dagg would be a 3rd option on thin ice…He's been in the side for a longtime now and when he's playing his best football he's regarded as a top 3 Fullback…Piutau at his best (so far) is a top 10 Winger and/or Fullback…Wildcard omission Messam...

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Not sure about Faumuina going. He has barely (if at all?) played over the last while, and surely it would now take more than a couple of ITM games to get back to his best. I think he should just take it slow and steady for awhile. Having neck surgery and then getting knocked out surely can't be healthy. Crockett, Woodcock, Owen Franks are all certainties imo. Ben Franks has had a good Super campaign this year. And if they're going to take a 5th then while Nepo Laulala isn't very experienced, I think he's shown promise.

Yeah I know he plays both sides of the scrum effectively so I like him for that purpose alone…If he were healthy I would have him on my squad…I'm not the ABs selector…It's just my ideal…If Luatua and Tuipulotu were healthy, available and Good to go I would take them and leave Messam and Romano...

 

[Kiwi_]

I think the injury concern/paranoia having a 3rd back up half back is overstated. Have a gamble, it's very unlikely we will be put in the situation we will have no specialized halfback available, and at the expense of a game changing player like Sopoanga, I think it's a decent calculated risk/gamble. Especially since you can ring in a replacement HB in 3 days notice.

The major injury paranoia I would have would be Carter, Barrett and Slade who are made of china.

 

[Mcfadden]

Yeah I know he plays both sides of the scrum effectively so I like him for that purpose alone…If he were healthy I would have him on my squad…I'm not the ABs selector…It's just my ideal…If Luatua and Tuipulotu were healthy, available and Good to go I would take them and leave Messam and Romano...

Yeah I hear ya. And if he doesn't go then I guess it'll place extra emphasis on Ben Franks being the only one who can play both sides. I think we should be fine though.

P.s: Would have loved to have seen Tuipulotu go. He has that physical nature required for international rugby which some of our other options haven't got. And like Broadhurst, he's another guy who gives it 100% every time.

 

[CaliRa1]

My Depth Chart

FB B Smith Dagg Piutau Jane NMS
WG J Savea Osborne Piutau Dagg Tamanivalu
CT C Smith Fekitoa Nonu Ngatai Tamanivalu
2F Nonu SBW Moala Ngatai Crotty
WG Naholo NMS Jane B Smith Moala
FH Carter Sopoaga Barrett Cruden Slade
SH A Smith Perenara Weber Drummond TKB
N8 Read Vito Dixon Manu L Whitelock
OS McCaw Cane A Savea Todd Braid
BS Kaino Luatua Messam Shields Vito
SR S Whitelock Tuipulotu Broadhurst Luatua Kaino
SR Retallick Romano Thrush Bekhuis Wheeler
TH O Franks Faumuina Laulala Tu'ungafasi Tameifuna
HK Coles Taylor Harris Mealamu Elliot
LH Woodcock B Franks Crockett Moody Hames