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Another totally embarrassing night for America. How can you watch that and think either's fit for office?
Sadly that's the choice they have and one is significantly and demonstrably worse than the other. Not that the lefts buring hope in Sanders would of been much better. Still think Warren would of been the best choice out of what they had...

Unfortunately AOC is too young right now and could really envigorate the entire system away from old dudes. One of the flaws from the Obama era was lack of real successor planning.
 
i dont get why the Dems couldn't find a celebrity to run...assuming there honestly wasn't/isn't an existing politician better than Biden or sanders...do what the Reps did, get someone from "outside the system man" and they might have won over some of those that just liked Trump wasn't a politician, some old movie star, memorise their lines, stick on message etc...play the role of a president

hell, its a semi believable story, "after four years of trump i just could stand by anymore, thats why im running with no experience"

I'd still like to think the majority of people are good (evidence to contrary)...and therefore they should be represented by a good person, naive i know....but trump just comes across like a horrible person...like i wouldn't even want to have a beer with him just to unpick it all...

glad i dont have to vote for either
 
i dont get why the Dems couldn't find a celebrity to run
Who though?
Tom Hanks is one of the most beloved actors of a generation and the right wing are trying to smear him as a paedophile because they photoshopped his name onto an Epstein flight log (conveniently ignoring trump and Epstein being best buddies)
 
i dont get why the Dems couldn't find a celebrity to run...assuming there honestly wasn't/isn't an existing politician better than Biden or sanders...do what the Reps did, get someone from "outside the system man" and they might have won over some of those that just liked Trump wasn't a politician, some old movie star, memorise their lines, stick on message etc...play the role of a president

hell, its a semi believable story, "after four years of trump i just could stand by anymore, thats why im running with no experience"

I'd still like to think the majority of people are good (evidence to contrary)...and therefore they should be represented by a good person, naive i know....but trump just comes across like a horrible person...like i wouldn't even want to have a beer with him just to unpick it all...

glad i dont have to vote for either
Who though?
Tom Hanks is one of the most beloved actors of a generation and the right wing are trying to smear him as a paedophile because they photoshopped his name onto an Epstein flight log (conveniently ignoring trump and Epstein being best buddies)
I don't think it would work, partly for the reason they haven't done it. The Democrats and their supporters are still playing by the old rulebook to some extent. That belive if they go for stunt candidates and not people of 'substance' they'd just turn people of. And I'll be honest I think they are right I'll use a couple of British examples.

Shortly before the Brexit vote David Beckham came out and said it was bad idea, the next day I overheard two cleaners mentioning it and they said something along the lines its easy for him to say that from his ivory tower (conveniently forgetting the people they were supporting were far more privileged).

Lily Allen 'apologised for our country' when she got upset visiting the refuge camp in Calais a simple and honest reaction se promptly became vilified for it.

Trump wasn't successful because of his celebrity it was because he said what people wanted to believe and sadly thats the most depressing part of it all.
 
i dont get why the Dems couldn't find a celebrity to run...
Last thing America needs is a celebrity president. A grown up, serious politician who deals in issues not sound bites and who's not decades past their sell by date would be a start.

I can't stand Trump but watching Biden scratch around for words validated some of the age criticisms against him.
 
You have to dig deeper and hindsight is wonderful thing to be able to do this. Back in 2008 the republican party put a relative moderate in McCain against Obama and he subsequently lost massively you have to go back to 1988 to the last time a republican president won by a significant and in those 3 wins since only once have they won the popular vote. The electoral college allows them to stay relevent but even with Trump with a higher turnout and population only managed to get 2 million more votes than Romney (another moderate) did 4 years earlier hell he got 1.1% less votes than Romney managed. The harsh reality is ultra-conservatism in the US is on its way out but this has a huge effect on the US back in 2008 who emerged from it the Republican's Palin and the Tea Party movement that paved the way for Trump. Essentially seeing a black man win and by a huge amount has entrenched those on the right to such a huge degree they are now voting for outright racists/misogynists and has made them far louder. At least for America the voting patterns show the trending away from those views sadly its geographic rather than a broad spectrum and its sllowing the electoral college to play havok. Imagine if the last 32 years we only had one Republican president as popular vote suggests there should of been.

This sadly is note the case in the UK where a clear shift rightwards has been occuring over a similar period after a shudder to the left caused by Blair. Its also caused to some degree by a bad electoral system but more due to fragmentation of the center to left and clear 'strong' right party.
 
Last thing America needs is a celebrity president. A grown up, serious politician who deals in issues not sound bites and who's not decades past their sell by date would be a start.

I can't stand Trump but watching Biden scratch around for words validated some of the age criticisms against him.
I did say that was on the assumption that there honestly wasn't a better actually politician than what they've put up
 
bernie sanders dancing GIF
 
Tulsi Gabbard?
I know you like her but America's left didn't really show her much support at all. Might be something to with supporting authoritarian regimes and a shoddy history on LGBTQ+ rights.


And that pretty much sums up everything anyone on the left I follow was saying about her, never had a chance. A whole 270k people voted for her and she got a whole two delegates. 4 other candidates were more popular than her before you even get to Biden and Sanders the person in 6th place got twice as many votes as her. In the debates most people considered her a joke.

So out the 11 candidates put up that's still a pretty resounding no.
 
I know you like her but America's left didn't really show her much support at all. Might be something to with supporting authoritarian regimes and a shoddy history on LGBTQ+ rights.


And that pretty much sums up everything anyone on the left I follow was saying about her, never had a chance. A whole 270k people voted for her and she got a whole two delegates. 4 other candidates were more popular than her before you even get to Biden and Sanders the person in 6th place got twice as many votes as her. In the debates most people considered her a joke.

So out the 11 candidates put up that's still a pretty resounding no.
She doesn't support authoritarian regimes she just thinks it's better to talk to them than go to war with them. Trying to remove Assad and actually removing Hussain and Gaddafi was extremely counter productive for American security and the lives of the people in those countries. Taking a different approach makes sense. On the LGBTQ question I believe she has apologised for the veiws she once held but as we know things like that tend to stick.

To me she seems like a change candidate who might actually do some good as opposed to Biden who is just another establishment candidate who many millions will not bother to vote for. Where does he stand on interventionist wars? Gun control? Single payer healthcare? Or is it just a case of getting rid of Trump. That happens on day one what happens after that?
 
. On the LGBTQ question I believe she has apologised for the veiws she once held but as we know things like that tend to stick.
Your dead in the water on the left if you have dodgy views on this topic, for instance Kier Starmer said of proposals to Gender Equality Act (specifically self ID for transgendered people) that because the government were ignoring their own report he didn't get into a 'transgender debate' and the left denounced him immediate (admittedly they were looking for the first excuse). Look at the demise of Tim Farron whom the LD's still consider lied to them to get their votes to be leader. If you actively like Tulsi legisated against LGBTQ+ rights no amount of apologising and moving on will helped, it tars you for life.

As to Joe's positions (other than being not Trump and that sadly is not good enough) hes was US Senator since 1973....so has a long history of what his positions are.

Tis not great on DOMA but then he seams to have taken early progressive attitudes (for the US) and led the way even forcing Obama hand on the issues.

Interventionist Wars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden#In_general
Gun Policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden#Gun_policy
Healthcare: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden#Healthcare

Doesn't support single-payer healthcare but sadly on that front America is well behind the times on that and kinda of against it. As an incrementalist myself I can see the fact you won't bae able to enact everything overnight look how badly ACA was received.
 
Your dead in the water on the left if you have dodgy views on this topic, for instance Kier Starmer said of proposals to Gender Equality Act (specifically self ID for transgendered people) that because the government were ignoring their own report he didn't get into a 'transgender debate' and the left denounced him immediate (admittedly they were looking for the first excuse). Look at the demise of Tim Farron whom the LD's still consider lied to them to get their votes to be leader. If you actively like Tulsi legisated against LGBTQ+ rights no amount of apologising and moving on will helped, it tars you for life.

As to Joe's positions (other than being not Trump and that sadly is not good enough) hes was US Senator since 1973....so has a long history of what his positions are.

Tis not great on DOMA but then he seams to have taken early progressive attitudes (for the US) and led the way even forcing Obama hand on the issues.

Interventionist Wars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden#In_general
Gun Policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden#Gun_policy
Healthcare: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden#Healthcare

Doesn't support single-payer healthcare but sadly on that front America is well behind the times on that and kinda of against it. As an incrementalist myself I can see the fact you won't bae able to enact everything overnight look how badly ACA was received.
Yes but it doesn't stop her getting support from floating voters and there are 100 million of them in the US.
 
I do think the problem with the left in the UK and USA in particular is that they are a lot like the caricature of them in the Life of Brian with the Judean People's Front + Others. They spend as much time sniping at each other, splitting and infighting as they do opposing the right. It's also all or nothing, either you are represented by someone who 100% matches your views or you aren't interested. It's why the right wing get a disproportionate amount of time in power.
 
I do think the problem with the left in the UK and USA in particular is that they are a lot like the caricature of them in the Life of Brian with the Judean People's Front + Others. They spend as much time sniping at each other, splitting and infighting as they do opposing the right. It's also all or nothing, either you are represented by someone who 100% matches your views or you aren't interested. It's why the right wing get a disproportionate amount of time in power.
"The left fall in love; the right fall in line"

For the right, winning is what matters. For the left there's no point winning if it means sacrificing a principal.
:(
 
After spending the last few weeks telling the whole world that were going to deliberately and knowingly break the law, we now seem surprised that the EU is taking legal action against us.

I'm sure we hold all the cards again though.

Mind, I'm not sure how useful cards are when we seem to be playing Russian Roulette... with all 6 bullets in situ.
 
They've given us the leeway though of allowing "crunch" talks to happen before starting procedures. Its also not passed the Lord's yet and could be a while before it even gets its 1st reading.

Still think its mainly for show and most of it is just going through motions.
 
Pretty sure that it's both negotiating technics by both the UK and EU.

UK - "if you don't give us what we want we won't follow the agreement we signed and the customs union could be damaged"

EU - "if you don't agree with us for a deal and then breach the agreement you signed, then legal action"
 
After spending the last few weeks telling the whole world that were going to deliberately and knowingly break the law, we now seem surprised that the EU is taking legal action against us.

I'm sure we hold all the cards again though.

Mind, I'm not sure how useful cards are when we seem to be playing Russian Roulette... with all 6 bullets in situ.
We do have all the cards, unfortunately we are playing poker and we have mr Bones the Butcher.
 
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