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As for timescales, the more pertinent debate is what's the longest gap between announcement and election date. He wants an election ASAP after 31/10 - which means 07/11, can he really eke it out to 2 months?

By my reckoning, his ideal would probably be (I think I've got my dates right here):
03/09 Parliament regathers.
10/09 Queenie's speech and break for prorogation and party conferences.
09/10 Return from conferences; Call election; commons dismissed for 32 days of campaigning.
07/11 Election Day.


If nothing happens between 3rd and 10th of October, then it's too late. If a VONC happens in there; he'd have to try to take 2 months for 3 weeks worth of campaigning. Of course, the Banon playbook would say to do it anyway, and let the courts sort it - which takes time... when every week counts.
 
Crossing my fingers and toes that the Queen just does Boris for treason when he asks her, and locks him away in the tower.

Betty should have asked him to demonstrate he has the support of parliament in asking for it to be prorogued given the circumstances surrounding it.

Which would have meant a recall of MPs a vote.


Could hardly have been accused of being undemocratic by asking for a vote could she?
 
Ruth Davidson on verge of quitting Scottish Conservatives.....
 
On the contrary, the "fake news" is his best tool because they keep proving him right.




Another source detailing the context: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ille-fine-people-neo-nazis-column/3588970002/

That's two things now that you believe he said that has no evidence or is a straight up lie. What else are you pinning your opinion on is either false or deliberately misrepresented?

That's the thing when you fast and loose with the truth. Either it matters what is true or it doesn't. You're free to hate the guy, he seems arrogant in many ways, and if you had him over for dinner he would probably insult one of your guests.

But to make concessions on standards you'd normally demand just to satisfy your confirmation bias kills discussion.
If you hate the guy no matter what, then all you're looking for is an echo chamber.


I like how you only take one of the things I listed which he said to challenge it, but ignore the rest of his so-called comments, which Trump has never apologized or denied saying. So I take it you just ignore all the rest? There are countless of other lies he has made. So it's truly ironic when you say about playing fast and loose with the truth. Trump has played hard and fast with the truth his whole life, that he wouldn't know the truth if it hit him in the face. What about his fake own fake news? The purpose from the very start of his Presidency has been to turn the media away from criticising his Presidency and use it to criticise his critics. He is a classic Narcissist.

Trump has stirred up and divided the USA with his lies and rhetoric. Does he apologise for that? No, of course not and so a video you posted up condemning the misreporting of the Charlottesville comments from one of his supporters. Still, who cares about monument Charlottesville of the former general of the Confederate army; it's just a pretext to provoke. It's like the Orange Order march in Northern Ireland who have to do their damn marches each year to remind Catholics about a battle they won hundreds of years ago; to remind people about a battle no one cares about anymore. Trump is deliberately ambiguous with his statements and then jumps and down when he is misreported. Why isn't he more clear to begin with?

Echo chamber, you say? What do you mean like the Trump rallies where feels at his most comfortable? Feel free to keep discussing it, I am not objecting or killing it. That is what this discussion forum is for. Just because more people here see Trump for exactly what he is: a despicable human being, who has honed his ability to sell to whichever audience he is speaking to and in turn divide to make it to the very top, doesn't make this forum an echo chamber.
 
I like how you only take one of the things I listed which he said to challenge it, but ignore the rest of his so-called comments, which Trump has never apologized or denied saying. So I take it you just ignore all the rest? There are countless of other lies he has made. So it's truly ironic when you say about playing fast and loose with the truth. Trump has played hard and fast with the truth his whole life, that he wouldn't know the truth if it hit him in the face. What about his fake own fake news? The purpose from the very start of his Presidency has been to turn the media away from criticising his Presidency and use it to criticise his critics. He is a classic Narcissist.

How could reasonably expect me to fact check everything you imply he said. I don't follow him that closely but regardless that's not what I was getting at anyway. I've already said I think he is arrogant and has a willingness to insult people. He is most certainly is a narcissist.

What I'm focusing on is the poisoning of the well because the truth doesn't appear to matter to his detractors any more. Close enough is good enough and "common sense" can take them the rest of the way. This is a show stopper for real discussion. His detractor's willingness to lie is what is driving people to him.

His greatest tool is his twitter account because he bypasses the media. The same media who is exposed as liars with an agenda on a consistent basis.

Trump has stirred up and divided the USA with his lies and rhetoric. Does he apologise for that? No, of course not and so a video you posted up condemning the misreporting of the Charlottesville comments from one of his supporters. Still, who cares about monument Charlottesville of the former general of the Confederate army; it's just a pretext to provoke. It's like the Orange Order march in Northern Ireland who have to do their damn marches each year to remind Catholics about a battle they won hundreds of years ago; to remind people about a battle no one cares about anymore. Trump is deliberately ambiguous with his statements and then jumps and down when he is misreported. Why isn't he more clear to begin with?

People on both 'sides' are dividing the USA and are using any opportunity to show each other up. Nobody is trying to de-escalate the situation with the media playing an equal role in this.

This from a couple of days ago, where a CNN contributor called him more destructive than Hilter, Salin and Mao.



So in week people have said he wants to drop nukes in storms and was compared to murderous dictators. I can see why his supporters have coined the term Trump Derangement Syndrome. Truth and reason don't matter anymore and it seems to be a race to the bottom.

Echo chamber, you say? What do you mean like the Trump rallies where feels at his most comfortable? Feel free to keep discussing it, I am not objecting or killing it. That is what this discussion forum is for. Just because more people here see Trump for exactly what he is: a despicable human being, who has honed his ability to sell to whichever audience he is speaking to and in turn divide to make it to the very top, doesn't make this forum an echo chamber.

Yes his rallies are an absolute echo chamber, just like all other US political rallies.
I've never understood these rallies in general. People attend and cheer on like it's a sports team, and they stick with their "team" no matter what. It's weird but I guess it satisfies a deep human need.

Already in our brief discussion you've promoted falsehoods and have been unapologetic about this. How is that different from what he does?
If you're an ideologue or activist of some kind, well then go ahead and strength to you. You'll find a ready group of people on here ready to read and vent with you. But it doesn't promote constructive discussion.
 
Ruth Davidson on verge of quitting Scottish Conservatives.....

She has quit. That's interesting. Ruth has done wonders for the Tories in Scotland and is someone who commands a great deal of respect both in and out of the party.
 
She has quit. That's interesting. Ruth has done wonders for the Tories in Scotland and is someone who commands a great deal of respect both in and out of the party.

She has been touted as a potential future leader of the party. She has a great sense of humour and is more down to earth than your typical Tory toff. Not a bad idea for her to disassociate herself from this shower now and come back after they get booted out and the party is in need of a relaunch. Also allows her to spend more time with her baby son.
 
How could reasonably expect me to fact check everything you imply he said. I don't follow him that closely but regardless that's not what I was getting at anyway. I've already said I think he is arrogant and has a willingness to insult people. He is most certainly is a narcissist.

Well, I only listed 5 or 6 of his so called claims/lies. But hey ho; too many I suppose and that is only scratching the surface.

What I'm focusing on is the poisoning of the well because the truth doesn't appear to matter to his detractors any more. Close enough is good enough and "common sense" can take them the rest of the way. This is a show stopper for real discussion. His detractor's willingness to lie is what is driving people to him.

His greatest tool is his twitter account because he bypasses the media. The same media who is exposed as liars with an agenda on a consistent basis.

The media are not blameless either, there are large sections which are frankly scum; we know in this country with the whole phone hacking scandal and also some sections of the British media are the most vile on this planet. But you've also got to recognise their role in free speech and also as a check on Government. That role cannot be diminished, regardless of Trump's actions to vilify them.

I would also make the point that if Trump is to call the media out for reporting so-called fake news, then he has to hold himself to that standard as well. Does he? Categorically no he doesn't he is throwing oil on the fire for his own benefit, not for the greater good. That is what I can't stand he is a complete and utter hypocrite. He stands there accusing the media of fake news, whilst spreading it like wildfire himself.



People on both 'sides' are dividing the USA and are using any opportunity to show each other up. Nobody is trying to de-escalate the situation with the media playing an equal role in this.

This from a couple of days ago, where a CNN contributor called him more destructive than Hilter, Salin and Mao.



So in week people have said he wants to drop nukes in storms and was compared to murderous dictators. I can see why his supporters have coined the term Trump Derangement Syndrome. Truth and reason don't matter anymore and it seems to be a race to the bottom.


Yep and at the very heart of the divide is Trump. And he is happy to watch the chaos unfold before him. As for comparing him to dictators before him, well maybe not to that degree, but an updated, populist dictator nevertheless. You could argue that his stance on climate change and dragging the US out of the Paris will have long term effects which will indirectly kill millions around the world. Now he isn't solely to blame for climate change, but he could have used his Presidency to make a moral standpoint for a situation, which is our generation and future generation's biggest challenge.



Yes his rallies are an absolute echo chamber, just like all other US political rallies.
I've never understood these rallies in general. People attend and cheer on like it's a sports team, and they stick with their "team" no matter what. It's weird but I guess it satisfies a deep human need.

I am glad we agree on something.


Already in our brief discussion you've promoted falsehoods and have been unapologetic about this. How is that different from what he does?
If you're an ideologue or activist of some kind, well then go ahead and strength to you. You'll find a ready group of people on here ready to read and vent with you. But it doesn't promote constructive discussion.

Well, as I have said I don't know for absolute certainty that he said the Nuke thing. But in my life, I do use my common sense and value it against other falshoods Trump has said and said he COULD have said it. Like putting guns in the hands of so-called trained teachers; like they haven't got enough to bloody worry about. Yeah, Nuking hurricanes is a similar kind of stupidy, but on a much larger scale. Trump has set his stall out and helped contributed greatly to this climate and he has put himself up there as President to be criticised; he just can't take because he is a narcissist.

We live in an age of the weaponising of information I am afraid. And yes, we do have to filter out the BS and some of it we will get wrong. But please don't champion Trump as a victim in all this and even a champion against the media. It's what he wants and how he plans to help him win his second term in office.
 
I say chaps, you Englandshires appear to be in a rather tight spot. From the highs of last weekend to Boris' low of middle of this week.
I reckon its about time for a revolution. War of the Roses II one might say.


Split England in two, the non-racist non-xenophobic bit can join* the new Celtic Federation that is shortly to form.
*As our token Saxons.




Ken Clarke backing Corbyn for caretaker PM

Not sure thats a good idea. Ken Clarke is more palatable to most than Jezza Corbyn at this point.
 
Not sure thats a good idea. Ken Clarke is more palatable to most than Jezza Corbyn at this point.

At this point anyone who genuinely wants to stop no deal brexit has to start accepting they may end up with something they don't like, but is better than the alternative. At the moment the only ones who are going to get what they want are the extreme brexiteers who want to leave with no deal. Anyone who wants to leave with a deal or remain is going to get nothing. A temporary interim government under Jezza might be bad, but it's only temporary. No deal is far more permanent and will have far longer consequences.
 
True.

But I think it'd be easier for a Labour MP to vote for Clarke than a Tory to vote for Corbyn.
 
Seeing quite a lot of protests being organised for tomorrow late-morning.
Cheltenham is the easiest for me to get to
 
Whatever happens we are heading for an election before the end of the year. The EU won't budge (and rightly so) as long as BoJo and co can't come up with a backstop alternative and so we are heading for No deal. He will then pick up all the Brexit party votes if we're out on 31 Oct. If Corbyn becomes temporary PM he will ask for an extension probably until March and will then hold an election which could easily result in another hung Parliament potentially solving nothing.
 
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