A Political Thread

[Leonormous Boozer]

Sniffing weakness? The smell of weakness has been rising from Theresa May since well before she became PM; rising to overpowering during her campaign for party leadership, and now mingled with the smell of Surströmming as she rots outwards from the inside.

Blood was probably the better word. This is the first time anyone of importance in the EU have publicly entertained a second referendum as far as I'm aware?!

 

[ncurd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47715415

They could of held of for like a week...FFS

I can see Brexiteer shitstorm coming!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

First Article 13 then my Cars.

EU why you gotta hurt me.

 

[Which Tyler]

So we pretty much know what today's options for MPs are then. Not many suggestions have been put in to Bercow to pick his 6ish.
https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1110818230346702849

Which gives us:
B - Leave the EU without a deal April 12 - this may not be an option as parliament has already voted to remove it as an option, so on of the "Malthouse Compromise" options may get this spot
F&J - Leave the EU with a customs union
D - Common Market 2.0 / Norway+
G - Revoke article 50

L - Revoke article 50 in the event of a No Deal
M - Any withdrawal agreement must be put to a second referendum

Which we basically knew already; they just needed someone to actually propose them.
Interestingly, absolutely nobody has suggested May's deal


I quite like option A if he'd included the original referendum, and set the 2/3 majority "rule" for any future constitutional changes / referenda

 

[Which Tyler]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/237819
Allow all British citizens to vote should there be a new referendum on Brexit.
When the referendum on leaving the EU took place in 2016, a large number of British Citizens were not allowed to register their vote for a series of reasons laid down by the government. Obviously this matter affects ALL British citizens equally, therefore they should all have an equal right to vote

More details
British citizens living abroad for more than 15 years can't vote.
I was one of the 700,000 British people denied a vote in the first EU referendum – that's why we need another Brexit vote

 

[General Melchett]

Blood was probably the better word. This is the first time anyone of importance in the EU have publicly entertained a second referendum as far as I'm aware?!

Tusk alluded to a second referendum after MV1 was voted down. Without mentioning referendum he said something along the lines of 'there is another way if someone in the Government is brave enough to speak up'.

I can't wait until this Government is gone. It annoys the hell out of me that the ERG and DUP are holding all the aces as May limps on as a stubborn lame duck PM. What makes it worse is that the ERG blew the chance to get rid of her by playing their wildcard (vote of confidence) too early. I really wish the system allowed for a new centre ground party to emerge and wipe the floor with both the Tories and Labour but we are stuck in this flawed corrupt two party system.

 

[Which Tyler]

Tusk alluded to a second referendum after MV1 was voted down. Without mentioning referendum he said something along the lines of 'there is another way if someone in the Government is brave enough to speak up'.

I can't wait until this Government is gone. It annoys the hell out of me that the ERG and DUP are holding all the aces as May limps on as a stubborn lame duck PM. What makes it worse is that the ERG blew the chance to get rid of her by playing their wildcard (vote of confidence) too early. I really wish the system allowed for a new centre ground party to emerge and wipe the floor with both the Tories and Labour but we are stuck in this flawed corrupt two party system.

Such a shame the tuition fees things happened - Had Lib Dems emerged from the coalition period with integrity intact, this might have been a valid option.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yup, Lib Dems lost an entire generation of voters by bending over for the Tories

 

[Which Tyler]

Yup, Lib Dems lost an entire generation of voters by bending over for the Tories

And the parents and grandparents of that generation

 

[ncurd]

Ugh I hate having this argument nearly 9 years after the fact.

It was one fricking policy in the entire manifesto (and one I still passionately believe should be policy even though its not). Okay it was one we were particularly well known for. But how often do the two major parties break their pledges? Can never help but feel we are being held to a higher standard than others.

I also firmly believe that if we'd done exactly the same thing with Labour we wouldn't of been vilified as much.




The major mistakes really were when Tories actually started to break the coalition agreement not backing out of it, letting the Tories take credit for our policies, not promoting ourselves enough everytime we stopped the Tories really ******* people over and a huge miscalculation that if we acted like reasonable calm indivduals willing to actually work with people we disagreed with rather than throw a wobbly everytime people would see that and reward us.



Honestly big problem with Lib Dems now overrun with pro-EU refugees who don't understand the Liberal part of our party name. We are becoming the pro-EU UKIP sadly.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It was one fricking policy in the entire manifesto.

It was the policy that got the lib dems the amount of votes they had (went from 52 seats to 62 - currently sitting pretty on 8) - they exploited the student vote and then flipped as soon as they could after.

Everyone I knew at uni voted lib dem then, and now wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.

 

[ncurd]

So we pretty much know what today's options for MPs are then. Not many suggestions have been put in to Bercow to pick his 6ish.
https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1110818230346702849

Which gives us:
B - Leave the EU without a deal April 12 - this may not be an option as parliament has already voted to remove it as an option, so on of the "Malthouse Compromise" options may get this spot
F&J - Leave the EU with a customs union
D - Common Market 2.0 / Norway+
G - Revoke article 50

L - Revoke article 50 in the event of a No Deal
M - Any withdrawal agreement must be put to a second referendum

Which we basically knew already; they just needed someone to actually propose them.
Interestingly, absolutely nobody has suggested May's deal


I quite like option A if he'd included the original referendum, and set the 2/3 majority "rule" for any future constitutional changes / referenda

A- Is just ******** and creates further deadlock. I doubt the speaker would select it.
B - Almost certainly gets selected parliament keep saying it won't accept no deal but no time has it been binding.
C - Impossible as the EU won't agree to it. Probably shouldn't be selected
D - Yup and was actually what most prominent leave campaigners wanted. Labour would possibly support this one.
E - Its ummmm just an affirmation its not actually an option to leave doesn't get selected.
F - Labour plan will get selected.
G -Will get selected as SNP, will likely not go through.
H - Possible but will like get F & D over it.
I - Won't get selected.
J - F and D cover this in better detail.
K - Probably not. But its Corbyns so who da fuk knows.
L - Gets combined with G
M - Maybe but the grand plan seams to be to attach this to any eventual decision by parliment.
N - Technically impossible with fabled technology that doesn't exist. It might get selected.
O - Might work doesn't solve Irish border.
P - Interesting its the controlled no-deal. I think its lacking the detail and agreement with EU to make it work.

So my picks

B
D
F
G
K - Oppositions
O

 

[ncurd]

It was the policy that got the lib dems the amount of votes they had (went from 52 seats to 62 - currently sitting pretty on 8) - they exploited the student vote and then flipped as soon as they could after.

Everyone I knew at uni voted lib dem then, and now wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.

Those gain were not terrible different from the 90's and 2000's. 1997 was actually the best gain before tuition fees were a thing or a major party policy. Reality is it wasn't abandoned without much forethought but the party believed national interest and high hope of real electoral reform (A huge long standing party policy) was worth abandoning some core pledges.

I don't believe 18 years of support building was lost on that one policy. It was certainly a factor but 2/3 of the voters didn't abandon the party on that one particular hill.

Who do they vote for now? Labour who implemented the damn things in first place, then introduced top up fees? Or Tory who wanted and even worse deal to be bought in. I also think you don't realise how little the student vote actually counts for in the grand scheme of things (its a shame but it doesn't digging for the student vote doesn't help, if the fuckers actually voted it would matter).


Like I say I don't think this would of happened if the coalition was with Labour.

 

[ncurd]

Labour finally being whipped to support second referendum.

 

[ncurd]

New - Labour will whip to support
F&J - Snell/Clarke on Customs Union
K - Labour's Brexit plan
M - Beckett on second referendum
They are also "encouraging support"
D - Common Market 2.0
Not whipped because not technically party policy but implication is Corbyn will support

 

[ncurd]

LABOUR BREXIT LATEST: Jeremy Corbyn's spokesman explains that the party only supports a referendum on a "damaging Tory Brexit". If Labour takes power, he says, it will negotiate a better Brexit, which won't need a referendum.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

LABOUR BREXIT LATEST: Jeremy Corbyn's spokesman explains that the party only supports a referendum on a "damaging Tory Brexit". If Labour takes power, he says, it will negotiate a better Brexit, which won't need a referendum.

Yeah just read that. Corbyn and co just showing their true colours really. What the difference between a "damaging Tory Brexit" and "damaging Labour Brexit"? It's all relative. Corbyn is deluded to think he can negotiate Britain to leave the EU, have a Customs Union and also have a say in EU trade deals with other countries, when it is specifically forbidden by the Treaty of Rome.

 

[ncurd]

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1110898721619955712

I think that's fair.

 

[Which Tyler]

Yeah just read that. Corbyn and co just showing their true colours really. What the difference between a "damaging Tory Brexit" and "damaging Labour Brexit"? It's all relative. Corbyn is deluded to think he can negotiate Britain to leave the EU, have a Customs Union and also have a say in EU trade deals with other countries, when is specifically forbidden by the Treaty of Rome.

Completely bonkers.

Equally, I'm not sure how whips can be applied to this, as surely it's a secret ballot

 

[ncurd]

I believe its an open ballot...