A Political Thread

[munstermuffin]

Lads ye would want to sort this crap fast. European QFs are on weekend of Brexit so sort it.

 

[The Truth Hurts]

This political mess we find ourselves in was begun by the odious characters Boris J and Nigel F with David C used as their puppet to start the process, I blame all 3, they are responsible for the mess our economy is in now and all 3 should be locked up for the lies they perpetuated during the campaign.

Surely any dramatic change through public referendum should have to achieve 66% of the vote, we should however not go back to the polls, the MPs should have a vote in or out and they should do it now.

 

[The Truth Hurts]

This political mess we find ourselves in was begun by the odious characters Boris J and Nigel F with David C used as their puppet to start the process, I blame all 3, they are responsible for the mess our economy is in now and all 3 should be locked up for the lies they perpetuated during the campaign.

Surely any dramatic change through public referendum should have to achieve 66% of the vote, we should however not go back to the polls, the MPs should have a vote in or out and they should do it now.

He agreed with HAMAS as well why do you think all this antisemitism has come out since he became leader

It shows Labour are a spent force when they chose such an un-electable leader

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Lads ye would want to sort this crap fast. European QFs are on weekend of Brexit so sort it.

Wish it could Munster, but this thing is going to drag on and on...... **** knows when it's gonna be sorted. Brexit fatigue has already set in.

 

[munstermuffin]

Wish it could Munster, but this thing is going to drag on and on...... **** knows when it's gonna be sorted. Brexit fatigue has already set in.

Being honest it a bit of who wull blink first. Irish Government know they need UK but have to act strong due to EU pressure. UK know a no deal could cause chaos in the markets and it could be very good or very bad and well causes an uninown regarding laws and regulations applued in UK. EU know they need UK to be on side as well Germany are feqrful the Italian economy could pull them all down especially without UK assistance.
The issue is all parties know this but are not willing to come out looking weak

 

[Amiga500]

So Plan B is Plan A.

Fúck but she is a pig-headed, stubborn, arrogant piece of shíte.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Being honest it a bit of who wull blink first. Irish Government know they need UK but have to act strong due to EU pressure. UK know a no deal could cause chaos in the markets and it could be very good or very bad and well causes an uninown regarding laws and regulations applued in UK. EU know they need UK to be on side as well Germany are feqrful the Italian economy could pull them all down especially without UK assistance.
The issue is all parties know this but are not willing to come out looking weak

We can't agree to get rid of the backstop, we're trying to protect an incredibly vital international treaty, Theresa May and the DUP are not. (Lets not pretend the brexiteers really care about the backstop, its just a convenient way to go against the current deal)

If a no deal Brexit happens a border will go up and May will have blood on her hands very quickly, if our government agree to get rid of the backstop and a border goes up our government will have to split the blame. From the Act of Union in 1801, through the rejection of home rule in 1886 pandering to the unionist minority, Partition in 1922, entering the EEC in 1973, the good friday agreement in 1999 and now Brexit the UK can make sacrifices to get themselves out, not us.

 

[munstermuffin]

We can't agree to get rid of the backstop, we're trying to protect an incredibly vital international treaty, Theresa May and the DUP are not. (Lets not pretend the brexiteers really care about the backstop, its just a convenient way to go against the current deal)

If a no deal Brexit happens a border will go up and May will have blood on her hands very quickly, if our government agree to get rid of the backstop and a border goes up our government will have to split the blame. From the Act of Union in 1801, through the rejection of home rule in 1886 pandering to the unionist minority, Partition in 1922, entering the EEC in 1973, the good friday agreement in 1999 and now Brexit the UK can make sacrifices to get themselves out, not us.

But there is more to it than hust a border. Look now EU are even split over Ireland.
Trade is a huge part and Ireland will suffer too and EU won't save us then.
Not saying UK are right but our Government has been appalling too in their attitude too.
If there is a border I think Leo takes some blame too just for his approach towards it all

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

But there is more to it than hust a border. Look now EU are even split over Ireland.
Trade is a huge part and Ireland will suffer too and EU won't save us then.
Not saying UK are right but our Government has been appalling too in their attitude too.
If there is a border I think Leo takes some blame too just for his approach towards it all

How have they been appalling? They're very effectively protecting the Irish population of NI while exposing how little Westminster, or the DUP, care about NI as a whole. The border eclipses any economic or trade issue, it's protecting the lives of Irish people already forced to live under foreign rule vs protecting pockets of the people here.

 

[munstermuffin]

How have they been appalling? They're very effectively protecting the Irish population of NI while exposing how little Westminster, or the DUP, care about NI as a whole. The border eclipses any economic or trade issue, it's protecting the lives of Irish people already forced to live under foreign rule vs protecting pockets of the people here.

Not denying that. Just his attitude as a whole. Even to other EU members. And now EU are cracking against him.
The border issue can be saved by negotiating but has been used by both sides as a bargaining tool in bogger picture.
Any northern Ireland person would say this.
As I said he isn't alone but could have done more to solve this. Even for the Irish people deserve more. Yes DUP and Westminster could have done more but so could Leo and Co

 

[General Melchett]

It all goes to show that the politicians campaigning in 2016 failed spectacularly by not presenting a proposal on how they would solve one of the most fundamental issues of Brexit. Instead they spouted nonsense about Turks, refugees and the NHS. It's a spectacularly huge oversight. The EU said time and again that this the is the best and only deal. They will look weak if they start agreeing to more changes.

I also don't get how May thinks that coming up with an alternative to the backstop will overturn a 230 deficit in Parliament. It's not all down to the backstop and she'll never be able to get her entire party on board in the same way as the ERG will never become pro Europe.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Not denying that. Just his attitude as a whole. Even to other EU members. And now EU are cracking against him.
The border issue can be saved by negotiating but has been used by both sides as a bargaining tool in bogger picture.
Any northern Ireland person would say this.
As I said he isn't alone but could have done more to solve this. Even for the Irish people deserve more. Yes DUP and Westminster could have done more but so could Leo and Co

Its not his issue to solve though, just like it isn't anyone's in the EU. Varadkar and Coveney have conducted themselves exactly as they should have, Ireland has and is attracting a lot of multinationals that need EU headquarters as a result of Brexit and we haven't budged on the single most important political stance this country has. If our government negotiated the backstop I'd be massively disappointed, it has to be in the backstop as it currently is.

 

[Amiga500]

The border issue can be saved by negotiating but has been used by both sides as a bargaining tool in bogger picture.
Any northern Ireland person would say this.

No it can't. No amount of negotiation can solve it as ultimately, it boils down to a binary case:

(i) are there customs differences?
(ii) are there not?

There is no shade of grey in the middle where both sides can meet.

If its (i), then you need to have a means of policing those differences. That means a security presence on the ground - which means relatively vulnerable targets for dissidents - which will likely lead to loyalist retaliation.

If its (ii), then how do you reconcile the differences between NI and England/Scotland/Wales? The DUP won't have it - even though they are being ultra hypocritical as there are many historic - and current - differences in law between NI and England/Scotland/Wales.

 

[Amiga500]

Its not his issue to solve though, just like it isn't anyone's in the EU. Varadkar and Coveney have conducted themselves exactly as they should have

Agreed. It would not look good from the unionist/loyalist mindset if Dublin were saying too much - it'd come across as dictating terms to the DUP - which we all know would only end up with an even more entrenched* bunker mentality on the part of the DUP.

*yes, that is possible. They're currently willing to share a room with all members of the Irish govt. Wasn't always the case.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Well Prime Minister, after much careful consideration following months of thorough deliberation, with a back and forth exchange of ideas attempting to converge on a mutually agreeable solution to the situation at hand, we have concluded with an unfortunately indecisive plurality that the most acceptable reconciliation among the dissenting factions is to persist by reiterating the status quo as presented earlier.

 

[Gavin]

The hilarity about the Northern Ireland situation with Brexit is that the DUP keep saying that they don't want checks between GB and NI or any differences between the two.

However all animals are already checked when they come to NI from GB at the ports, NI doesn't have the same laws such as gay marriage, abortion, corporation tax etc .

That's even more hilarious is that NI voted to remain in the EU .

All the DUP are doing is using the NI ''British" identity as their ideology, yet not doing what is best for the country or what the majority of the population voted for.

Let's also remember that we haven't had a government in NI for over two years, so budgets and funding isn't being spent because civil servants don't want to sign it out in case of any legal problems .

 

[munstermuffin]

But my point isn't on border. I agree Ireland are right here. More on trade issues, support to farmers etc.
And again I'm not saying Westminster or NI are right. On border the DUP want to stir trouble 100%

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Reese Mogg wants to suspend parliament so that no deal Brexit happens/can't be voted down.

#Sovereignity

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

It all goes to show that the politicians campaigning in 2016 failed spectacularly by not presenting a proposal on how they would solve one of the most fundamental issues of Brexit.

I'm curious: why do you consider that a failure from the politicians? Why isn't that the voters' fault?

 

[General Melchett]

I'm curious: why do you consider that a failure from the politicians? Why isn't that the voters' fault?

Politicians 'should' have a responsibility to present facts, information and opinions to the best of their knowledge otherwise it's misrepresentation. Not all voters are savvy and many are impressionable and easily influenced. In the case of General Elections, political parties have to publish manifestos so that they can be held to account on their promises. In the case of the 2016 referendum there was no such requirement - it was like the wild west.