A Political Thread

[McTallshort]

Ok, I didn't know he had a relationship with HAMAS, I'm pretty sure he agreed with the IRA's reasons for continuing the conflict in the North though.

He agreed with HAMAS as well why do you think all this antisemitism has come out since he became leader

 

[Bada-Bing!]

But what is the point in talking if May is unwilling to change any of her "red lines" which are clearly unpalatable to Labour?

The talks would only be a waste of very precious time - by entering them you'd perhaps encourage May that there could be a successful conclusion without her modifying any of her red lines. Staying out of the talks only ramps up the pressure on her to actually listen, rather than play lip service.

To show he is willing to talk (regardless of how pointless it is and how far apart he is from her). To isolate May further than she is at present. She's already getting blamed for this mess. But by refusing to shows he's just as self interested in his own ambitions to be PM.

 

[Amiga500]

To show he is willing to talk (regardless of how pointless it is and how far apart he is from her). To isolate May further than she is at present. She's already getting blamed for this mess. But by refusing to shows he's just as self interested in his own ambitions to be PM.

I'd disagree and say that it clearly illustrates that because she is not willing to budge on something everyone can agree would be catastrophic - talks would be a complete waste of time - time that we do not have.


edit: Now, if she changes her mind and agrees to say "no deal" is not an option - it shows a willingness to engage with others that to date (over the past few years!! not the past few hours!) has not been demonstrated.

 

[Reiser99]

Do the Government have a mandate for a No deal Brexit? I suspect not. Pretty sure it was made clear during the referendum that a withdrawal agreement would be negotiated with the EU. I personally think they're bluffing with No deal and would in the end, albeit last minute, extend article 50 to buy more time. Either that or the Speaker and a host of MPs will wrestle control away from this awful Government

I would say they do have a mandate purely on the vote which was to leave. Yes people may not have intended a no deal Brexit when they voted for leave, but the referendum only said leave, not how. I don't agree with it as I think it will quicken Britain's descent as an economic power in the world, but at this stage it's the only option that would satisfy the majority of leavers. May's deal or anything closer to a custom's union would be far too close to remain.

 

[McTallshort]

Ok, I didn't k

I'd disagree and say that it clearly illustrates that because she is not willing to budge on something everyone can agree would be catastrophic - talks would be a complete waste of time - time that we do not have.

If you are talking about taking a no deal brexit off the table then May doesn't have that luxury. A no deal brexit is a ******* reality if they cannot get their heads together.

Corbyn is happy to let this disaster unfold as long as he can gain power but this will come to bite labour badly in years to come

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I'd disagree and say that it clearly illustrates that because she is not willing to budge on something everyone can agree would be catastrophic - talks would be a complete waste of time - time that we do not have.

Ok agree to disagree. I've personally never liked Corbyn and his no refusal to show for me confirms his complete hypocrisy and shows he also has his own agenda. As I said May is to blame, but Corbyn has shown he is no better and by that a better alternative as a future PM. Both are still playing Party politics and it's a sad state of affairs.

 

[Amiga500]

If you are talking about taking a no deal brexit off the table then May doesn't have that luxury.

I see at least 2 clear routes to removing no deal from the table.

(i) Request extensions to Article 50 until agreement is reached.
(ii) If the EU refuse to extend, revoke Article 50, then reactivate it. There is nothing in law that will stop that.

 

[General Melchett]

I would say they do have a mandate purely on the vote which was to leave. Yes people may not have intended a no deal Brexit when they voted for leave, but the referendum only said leave, not how. I don't agree with it as I think it will quicken Britain's descent as an economic power in the world, but at this stage it's the only option that would satisfy the majority of leavers. May's deal or anything closer to a custom's union would be far too close to remain.

It just highlights how flawed the referendum was when everything is being interpreted or defined retrospectively after the vote. Even the politicians can't agree on what Leave actually means.

Leaving without a negotiated agreement is just reckless, high risk, economically catastrophic and not in the national interest. If crashing out with no deal was a confirmed outcome during the campaigning then perhaps some people who were expecting a soft Brexit would have switched to remain.

 

[Reiser99]

It just highlights how flawed the referendum was when everything is being interpreted or defined retrospectively after the vote. Even the politicians can't agree on what Leave actually means.

Leaving without a negotiated agreement is just reckless, high risk, economically catastrophic and not in the national interest. If crashing out with no deal was a confirmed outcome during the campaigning then perhaps some people who were expecting a soft Brexit would have switched to remain.

Oh I completely agree, the whole process has been a joke. I wrote my list earlier in the thread about the ridiculous things that have happened, I could go back now and add all the current shite as well, including the decision to give £14 million to a ferry company that has no boats, has not operated a ferry company before, has terms and conditions copied from a take away shop and whose owner bankrupted his last shipping business.

Honestly if before the referendum you had asked a satirical write to write a comical story about how Britain would leave the E.U they could not have come up with a set of more ridiculous circumstances.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46895634

Good article on Trump's Presidency after he reaches the two year mark in office.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Really hope Bercow stays on till after Brexit is over.

Dread to think what the situation might be with a weaker speaker.

 

[General Melchett]

Oh I completely agree, the whole process has been a joke. I wrote my list earlier in the thread about the ridiculous things that have happened, I could go back now and add all the current shite as well, including the decision to give £14 million to a ferry company that has no boats, has not operated a ferry company before, has terms and conditions copied from a take away shop and whose owner bankrupted his last shipping business.

Honestly if before the referendum you had asked a satirical write to write a comical story about how Britain would leave the E.U they could not have come up with a set of more ridiculous circumstances.

It was good to see Macron calling out the flawed referendum this week claiming that campaigning was fuelled with fake news. Not enough people have done this because they'll get accused of being bitter about the result (which he can't be of course).

I still think there should be more regulation and accountability when it comes to referendum campaigning. As things stand, politicians appear to be free to spout whatever lies or mis-representations they like which is completely wrong. At least with general elections, they have to publish manifestos that they (usually but not always) stick to. The establishment seem hell bent on 'honouring the will of the people' rather than facing up to the shambolic process that led to the result. If anything is worthy of a public inquiry it's that.

 

[General Melchett]

Really hope Bercow stays on till after Brexit is over.

Dread to think what the situation might be with a weaker speaker.

It's very poor that noises are coming out suggesting he might be the first speaker in 230 years not to get a peerage. Not that I care about peerages, but the fact that the Government are trying to warn or influence him in this way is shocking.

 

[Amiga500]

It's very poor that noises are coming out suggesting he might be the first speaker in 230 years not to get a peerage. Not that I care about peerages, but the fact that the Government are trying to warn or influence him in this way is shocking.

Exactly.

Why would folks believe any negotiations with that witch would be fruitful?

Don't forget - parliament had to fight every inch of the way to get that vote this week. If Fuhrer May had got her way - then it would all have been signed, sealed and delivered without any scrutiny or oversight whatsoever.

 

[Which Tyler]

. May's deal or anything closer to a custom's union would be far too close to remain.

Too close for what?
There isn't a sliding scale of what is "In" and what is "Out", that part is a binary question.
We could negotiate an agreement where we pay the same in, agree to absolutely everything that EU does, sign every single one of their treaties, and even get a seat at the table for future law making (so, significantly closer ties that Norway). And still be "Out" of the EU . That would still satisfy the referendum result.
The sliding scale ONLY comes in with how close our ties to the EU are once out, anywhere from joined at the hip, to open warfare. But in or out is binary. All versions of 'Out" satisfy the referendum.
Equally, no version of "Out" will see anything above 30% ish of actual support.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

https://twitter.com/number10cat/status/1085843397330518016?s=21

If Brexit were a cat.

 

[Reiser99]

So apparently Trump has a new justification for why the wall works. Start at 3 minutes for the Trump bit.

 

[ncurd]

Plan B, just Plan A again.....FFS

 

[Which Tyler]

Plan B, just Plan A again.....FFS

She's been getting tips from Rob Baxter

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Plan B, just Plan A again.....FFS

She'll try and propose a separate treaty with Ireland on the backstop with a time limit, which will fail again as Ireland will reject it.

All May gives a **** about is not tearing the Tory party apart and being able to "Govern" afterwards. I say Govern but she has lost all respect and authority for me. Corbyn also playing party politics and all he cares about now is getting to number 10 without getting the blame for Brexit.

Brexit transcends party politics and i think it's shown how unfit our Parliamentary system based on party politics is at sorting out such a issue of National importance.

Listening to all this having another referendum would betray those who voted leave last time. Well if there is another one nothing stopping those 17 million, who still can, voting leave again but now with eyes wide open.