A Political Thread

[Aristodemus]

Perhaps in 40 years you will have the opportunity to vote again.

 

[ncurd]

Except the EU courts have decided we can unilaterally withdraw Article 50 now whilst retaining benefits like the rebate, not joining the Euro and schegen area. All of which we won't be allowed to do in the future.

The time to decide if this was a mistake is now, not 40 years from now. and I think your argument basically boils down to 'I want to leave therefore I want to take the option of remaining away in case it wins' that's not democracy its not giving people a choice. Its not giving people the chance to make decision based on being informed. Its enforcing a result you want.

 

[Amiga500]

Perhaps in 40 years you will have the opportunity to vote again.

Theresa May is allowed to change her mind 180 degrees on at least two things within a week (1) vote going ahead (2) this is the deal, there is no other deal - but the electorate are not allowed to change their minds on something within 2 years?

Dead on.

 

[Which Tyler]

I don't agree with that sentiment at all. Like it or not a vote was made and it should be honoured, that is democracy.

I don't think you understand what "democracy" means.
Or more likely, you do; but you fluked a win 2.5 years ago and don't want to risk that by asking people who are likely less ignorant that they were previously.

 

[MarkyH]

Just discount the votes of people who have died since the vote. Could swing it you know

 

[Dai Yorkshire]

Erm? Not sure what you mean - you agree that preferential voting would solve the 3 answer problem or you think I'm not worth debating it with?

read all my post,

 

[Dai Yorkshire]

If there's going to be another referendum and I don't believe there will be , there should be just two options, Leave or remain, as we should all now know what we vote for.

 

[Aristodemus]

In reply to you all.

I didn't fluke anything. The only political statement I made was a genuine fear that all this will lead to a Labour/Corbyn government that will be the ruin of this country.

My argument boils down to my opinion that referendums should be respected, what is the point of having a vote if you just vote again until the desired result is achieved? This is not an solely an EU thing, it applies to the Scottish independence vote too and any other similar vote in any number of countries. Had we voted to remain and people were calling for another vote, would I be against it? Absolutely yes.

Teresa May or any other politician can change their minds as much as they like. Personally I think it loses you credibility in the long run but that's unrelated to the point I have been trying to make.

 

[Amiga500]

Teresa May or any other politician can change their minds as much as they like. Personally I think it loses you credibility in the long run

I have much more respect for people that are prepared to change their mind in the light of new evidence than for those who would entrench themselves despite any and all evidence to the contrary.

(What little respect she had from me) She lost by not changing her mind weeks ago since it was blindingly obvious what she had wasn't going to work.

 

[ncurd]

I agree with Amiga, not allowing out politicians to change their mind based on information is absolutely where we fail as a electorate. There are some fundamental things you would not expect like a staunch capitalist becoming a a fully blown socialist but to shift decisions to concede ground to negotiation. Those of things we should be asking more of from our politicians not less.

 

[Which Tyler]

"A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything"
George Bernard Shaw


Henry Addington, of the Addingtonian party was the first PM of Great Britain and Ireland in 1892.
How often are we allowed to change our minds as a country without losing credibility?

The last 2 GEs were 25 months apart, were currently 30 months away from the referendum

 

[General Melchett]

If you sign a 12 month mobile phone contract with O2 who then fail to provide the agreed data and minutes allowance and network coverage then you have the right to change your mind and go with another service provider because O2 failed to deliver what they promised and messed you around. I don't see much difference between O2 and Theresa May and her Tory Government.

 

[Which Tyler]

If you sign a 12 month mobile phone contract with O2 who then fail to provide the agreed data and minutes allowance and network coverage then you have the right to change your mind and go with another service provider because O2 failed to deliver what they promised and messed you around. I don't see much difference between O2 and Theresa May and her Tory Government.

O2 admitted that they cocked up, and have offered recompense

 

[General Melchett]

O2 admitted that they cocked up, and have offered recompense

Yeah my example was more hypothetical rather than in relation to the recent specific issue but there is fat chance the Tories will acknowledge their cock up

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I think it is entirely appropriate to hold another referendum given the level of misinformation in the Leave case.

I also think it is entirely appropriate to not have a second referendum as, whatever you think of that campaign, it did provide a mandate for leaving the EU. It's less clear on leaving the single market, but that's a seperate issue.

It's entirely down to the will of Parliament. Again, Westminster has a laughably disproportionate voting system, but if the government of the day can get a majority in favour of a referendum or in favour of Brexit arrangement then I don't think there are solid grounds for the other side to complain on a political basis.

I can see paralysis in Westminster until the next GE. The very antiquated electoral system is the reason why the call for an election will become deafening. There is little chance of a second hung parliament when a system can give a majority to a party scoring as little as 35% of votes cast.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think the Tories would win if there was a general election,
They have so many safe seats and I think the swing seats they won due to Corbyn-mania would go back as Labour have done sweet FA with all the good will they won in the run up to the last GE.

The Tory we have in charge around here is an absolute ****. Does nothing for the area, is never here and spends most of his time looking for photo ops and spewing shite on social media. Has made his career off of sucking up to the bigger boys (currently bojo and mogg) and having the worst wig in Europe. Yet has a very very comfortable majority simply cause he's a Tory and the arseholes round here just vote for the party they've always voted for.

 

[General Melchett]

So it looks like the EU are refusing to budge on the actual terms of the withdrawal agreement with the exception of some clarification.

Guess this means May's deal will still be hammered in Parliament which leaves three options:

1. Snap GE
2. Second referendum
3. Labour gaining enough support from rebel Tories to win a no confidence motion in the Government which will ultimately bring them down and force a GE.

Guess her deal will have to be voted on soon if she's heading back from Brussels empty handed. Next week will be very interesting.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I think one thing Tory rebels won't do is side with Labour to bring down their own Government. Although they hate May as their leader they are still better off on the back benches of Government than on the back benches of opposition.

 

[Which Tyler]

So it looks like the EU are refusing to budge on the actual terms of the withdrawal agreement with the exception of some clarification.

Did anyone seroiusly believe anything else was going to happen?

 

[ncurd]

Did anyone seroiusly believe anything else was going to happen?

I still can't belive people are genuinely shocked when the EU says a thing and then they actually mean it.