A Political Thread

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So will @themole25 have to start paying more to post here?

 

[GarethGriffiths]

Ncurd, sorry to say but that last comment lets you down a bit IMO.

Instead of showing a lack of tolerance or anger/hatred towards these people, the best way is to engage with them - show them your point of view and explain why you feel that they are wrong.

Too much time is wasted with flame wars online and threatening people if they won't/don't cow tow, and words like 'racist' and 'homophobe' have lost their meaning and their sting.

If you look at Social Media, how many comments along the line of 'if you disagree with me you're a racist' etc? Most likely, those people aren't racist at all, and if critical thinking and alternative points of view are to be banned/silenced then is it any wonder why certain groups such as the Alt-Right are gaining prominence.

Regarding Rees-Mogg, I don't know the man that well but I can take him or leave him as I please. He may have different values and morals, but he has the right to have them so long as they don't impinge upon the freedom of others (and yes, I am aware that this is a difficult balancing act).

I'll hold my hands up, I used to not like gay people at all - the reason being was that a school friend was raped and murdered by a gay paedophile at the age of 14. However, I learnt to overcome my extreme dislike of them and many of the people who helped me reconcile with them are still good friends of mine to this day, we still meet up in The Kings Cross in Cardiff whenever we're in town.

There are still some facets of LGBTQ which I disagree with - making Transgender education mandatory for Primary Schools is something which I (and yes some gay people as well) strongly disagree with, not because I dislike Transgendered people (to me they're as human as any of us) but I believe that children have the right to innocence and to not be pressured into being sexualised. If that makes me literally worse than Hitler, well I will lose no sleep over it.

Debate and discussion is key - you might well win somebody round to your way of thinking and possibly gain a new friend/ally in the process.

 

[ncurd]

How exactly am I supposed to debate and engage with Jacob Ress-Mogg? He's not posting on the forum is he?

And I don't see anyone here engaging in the views he does. For the record I have successfully debated and engaged with people in the past on gay marriage and changed their minds. Admittidly im not brilliant and it took years.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

To the best of my knowledge, I don't believe that he is.

Besides, I was talking generally and not about one specific person.

Also a good thing that you debate and engage, hopefully we don't lose these as tools by which people can exchange points of view without pointless name-calling.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

You can only debate with people that are open to debate.

I used to have that mindset but i have given up TBH,


If you look at Social Media, how many comments along the line of 'if you disagree with me you're a racist' etc? Most likely, those people aren't racist at all, and if critical thinking and alternative points of view are to be banned/silenced then is it any wonder why certain groups such as the Alt-Right are gaining prominence. - maybe but on the other hand if you disagree with me your a snowflake traitor cuck.

Swings and round abouts the vocal minority on both sides don't want to debate.


social media and tabloids have destroyed the art of debate. It's now who can scream the loudest.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

'social media and tabloids have destroyed the art of debate. It's now who can scream the loudest.'

Sadly truer words were never said, Tigs.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He may have different values and morals, but he has the right to have them so long as they don't impinge upon the freedom of others.

Literally what he is trying to do at every turn, though. Look at his voting history in the link I posted above.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Mogg is like Boris, he pretends he plays up a persona that will make people less put off by them but you soon discover what lies underneath and it is the same with all of them, they are a bunch of selfish, backstabbing tossers looking to better themselves and their close friends. They couldn't give 2 fucks what damage they do in achieving that. Boris played up the loveable buffoon but then went full blown nationalist in Brexit and full blown backstabber when he ran for PM. He has also shown his mentality when he stuck his hand behind someone else when both were on camera and tried to shove him down. He then started going "sorry, so sorry" but it was clear intent, the second he was put under pressure and felt he could get away with it, he tried to manhandle his way out of a situation. Typical Etonian attitude, complete disregard for others and a sense they can do what the hell they want.

I know a reverse classism is wrong but we frequently see those at the very top are every bit as bad as those at the very bottom, the difference is they get away with it. Rees-Mogg is firmly in the same mold of privileged and completely detached Tory who thinks the vast majority of the country are an inconvenience who only exist to buy things and do menial work, not people.

 

[Gavin]

It amazes me so much that quite a lot of people from more socially and economically deprived regions of the UK vote Conservative.

Why do they think that people who have been born with a silver spoon in their mouths will want to help the poorest in society?

At this moment they vote Conservative because of their immigration views.

Reece-Mogg is, at this moment, a sound-bit politician, like Boris was (and still is), but the issues within the Conservative party could allow him to rise up with ranks, especially if they continue the social media push.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

It amazes me so much that quite a lot of people from more socially and economically deprived regions of the UK vote Conservative.

Why do they think that people who have been born with a silver spoon in their mouths will want to help the poorest in society?

.

Probably due to feeling betrayed by Labour?

Looking at both the areas where Leave scored over 50% and where the Tory seats are, a lot of them are in the countryside or less populated areas than London, Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff, Glasgow etc.

Country folk and City folk have a different mentality.

As far as my own feelings go, I would not vote for any party at present as IMO politics and politicians have failed. I would not favour Monarchy rule either.

A shame we couldn't have palmed the UK off to Branson or a business boffin years ago.

 

[Which Tyler]

A shame we couldn't have palmed the UK off to Branson or a business boffin years ago.

How's that working out over the pond?

 

[GarethGriffiths]

Donald Trump is hardly indicative of the business community. One idiot does not mean they are all bad - that argument does not stack up IMO.

I could mention Digby Jones, Theo Paphitis, Daniel Levy as successful and non-racist business people who have both acumen and an IQ of more than 1 (they out-trump Trump, so to speak).

I'm just bored with the usual slagging off on both sides:

'Theresa May is evil'

'Jeremy Corbyn is a fossilised loser'

'Brexit is racist'

'Liberals are cancer'

Surely we are better as a country than to descend to the lowest common denominator when it comes to arguments? If we cannot use common sense and basic decency, then we are a sorry case.

 

[McTallshort]

Sorry anyone who opposes equality in law is not showing tolerance and I don't see the need to show any tolerance towards them.

And this is what leads to....

This!

 

[GarethGriffiths]

As bad as DT is (and admittedly he is), will the same people whom venomously oppose him also speak out about anti-white hatred and abuse?

After all, calling out hatred and intolerance is across the board surely? You can't just pick and choose which fight/cause you participate in.

 

[ncurd]

Yes except I've never seen actual anti-white hatred and abuse. Not saying it doesnt exist just I think that it is vastly overinflated. Equality is equality and I don't support any form of positive discrimination.

On Trump I think you'll find that the media giving him tons of free air every time he opened his trap for saying outrageous things. Had far more to do with it than people not engaging in a discussion.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I never understand why people think someone who can run a business is someone who can run a country? Seriously there is minimal correlation. It's like saying a successful businessman should be a successful family man, it just does not follow. Businesses make money in a very different way to governments, they use it differently, they have different goals, different responsibilities, different power structures, different EVERYTHING. Add to that the inherent problem of conflicting interests and vested interests in seeing pro-business government (which, contrary to the propaganda is NOT always good. Pro business is often conjoined with anti-consumer and usually means moving the costs of business onto the public whilst retaining the profits and reducing competition).

Like it or hate it, immigration is an issue. Whether you believe immigration itself is a problem is irrelevant, there are a very large chunk of people who feel it is and who have been acting on that belief. The far right is becoming more and more emboldened as the left have been content to passively sit back being completely apathetic about the whole thing and dismissing all differing views as being racist, sexist, classist or any other negative "ist" you want to use. We on the left have to take some responsibility for the years of completely shutting down any dissenting views by attacking the character of those who make them. It's boy who cried wolf, now we actually have people who genuinely are those various "ists" and nobody listens any more. People have swung to anti-immigration parties because the mainstream have completely ignored their concerns. There has been little attempt to factually argue the case, it's just been dismissed and helped create the current anti-immigrant climate.

Let's be honest, that is what most of this revolves around. Brexit, Trump and the right wing movement are a kick back against immigration first and foremost, particularly immigration from those who are deemed "lesser" ie Eastern Europeans, Mexicans, Africans and Muslims.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's a nice tactic that the far right has adopted, dismissing all criticism as liberal loonies with their wide sweeping brushes labelling everyone as racist/sexist.
Trump made excuses for literal nazis marching in the streets of America, murdering people. He's on tape saying how he moves on married women "like a *****" and grabs them by the pussy, and he can do that without concequence because you're rich and you can do it if you're rich, and there's a growing list of sexual harassment incidents. But God forbid you suggest he's racist or sexist.


JRM is sexist and a homophobe. Doesn't matter if it's because of his religious beliefs he still is and he's using his power to try and force his antiquated bigoted beliefs on everyone else.

Sadiq Khan is a Muslim yet voted FOR equal rights for same sex couples and FOR same sex marriage. Yet the right paint him as some mentalist who wants Sharia Law implemented

 

[GarethGriffiths]

Yes except I've never seen actual anti-white hatred and abuse. Not saying it doesnt exist just I think that it is vastly overinflated. Equality is equality and I don't support any form of positive discrimination.

On Trump I think you'll find that the media giving him tons of free air every time he opened his trap for saying outrageous things. Had far more to do with it than people not engaging in a discussion.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of examples online.

A few for your perusal (warning, some contain 'industrial' language):

@KevinAllred on Twitter said on December 11th 2017 '**** white America, **** white supremacy, **** white people,**** an inability to see beyond our own noses and **** the faux concern for the tragedies in the past while allowing them to continue in the present'.

@BossupBuGotti on Twitter said on November 11th 2015 'I'm gonna kill every white person I see 2ma I hate you white muther f*ckers.'

Now, had they substituted White for Black or Asian, these people would be in a lot of trouble.

I believe in hatred towards no human, regardless of race, sexuality, gender, religion etc.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Now, had they substituted White for Black or Asian, these people would be in a lot of trouble.

I disagree,
The KKK still exist and have rallies and marches where they are protected by the police while they spout their white supremacy BS

 

[ncurd]

Man two seperate tweets from ignorant fucktards must be an endemic problem.