A Political Thread

[The Jones Boy]

The cold war sanctions probably had more legitimacy to them than these though. These sanctions are almost completely bogus.

I'm inclined to agree with you. They are entirely politically motivated with no real grounds.

They already sanctioned them over the whole Crimea thing which is another nothing burger imo.

Crimea has been Russian for at least 300 years. Nothing to see there.

The US poked and the Russian bear acted. What did they expect to happen??

Exactly. Can anyone here imagine the level of fear that would be abounding of an impending nuclear war if Russia moved deeply into the Mexican economy and befriended them big time.
Can you really see the USA being as delicate as taking control of the two key regions on the Mexican border?
Fat chance. The yanks would be throwing nukes out of the pram and stealth carpet bombing the nearest half of Mexico AND building a wall.
The Russians are a super power and they were flexing their muscle in eastern Ukraine to protect their borders and to send a message, "Dont push too hard or we will push back and you won't like it.!!"

Was putin just going to let them put Nato weapons right on the border without even batting an eyelid? Who's the moron again??

This is the big issue.
If Nato were going to get access to the Ukraine for the purposes of putting missiles etc in there, the Ukraine would be quickly overrun and annexed by Russia and Putin wouldn't bat an eyelid.
I completely agree on this matter.
If Russia tried it in Mexico the backlash would be fierce beyond the pale.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Nobody looking out for America lies like Trump does, cosies up to the Russians

On this point I have an issue.
America should be cosying up to Russia and Putin wants to cosy up to America.
It makes sense to alleviate the garbage we have been putting up with for 70 odd years.
The Russians love their children.
They are not the 'evil empire' that the idiot B movie actor Ronald Reagan prattled on about.
They are a super power.
Much like America. (and China)
They do bad things, they play by their own rules and they are not generally good samaritans unless it works for them.
However, if Russia and the US get along better it makes for a safer world because between the two of them they are holding the bulk of the nukes on the planet.
I'd rather they had a feigned friendship than the hawks in the pentagon kept spewing out the lies and vitriol about Russia being evil and sanctions required ad nauseum.
The Yankee military, govt, corporatocracy and military industrial complex has a LOT to answer for...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

On this point I have an issue.
America should be cosying up to Russia and Putin wants to cosy up to America.
It makes sense to alleviate the garbage we have been putting up with for 70 odd years.
The Russians love their children.
They are not the 'evil empire' that the idiot B movie actor Ronald Reagan prattled on about.
They are a super power.
Much like America. (and China)
They do bad things, they play by their own rules and they are not generally good samaritans unless it works for them.
However, if Russia and the US get along better it makes for a safer world because between the two of them they are holding the bulk of the nukes on the planet.
I'd rather they had a feigned friendship than the hawks in the pentagon kept spewing out the lies and vitriol about Russia being evil and sanctions required ad nauseum.
The Yankee military, govt, corporatocracy and military industrial complex has a LOT to answer for...

There is a world of difference between trying to maintain good relations with people and what Trump is doing which is singly praising and glorifying all things Russian, something he isn't doing with any other country in the world. If Trump was treating every country and world leader well then it would be different but he isn't, he's outright disrespectful to all world leaders except Putin. This goes beyond merely trying to repair relations, the Russians have sway over him. Also there is a strong suspicion that this isn't feigned friendship, that happens all the time, this is looking more like another nation that has some control over him and he is doing his best to stay on their good side. He's opposing sanctions on Russia for their invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea yet turns around and happily talks about slapping tariffs on the Chinese and Mexicans, there is a fundamental inconsistency in how he treats Russia and Putin compared to everyone else.

Also in your other responses you ignore fundamental differences between Mexico and Eastern Europe. Russia has no historical ties to Mexico, the USA very much has ties to Europe. Russia also has no military alliances or any reason to be in South America, the USA has a strong military relationship with Europe going back decades, further in the case of Britain and France. NATO has every reason to be close to Russia's border because NATO states exist there in western Europe, Russia has no business whatsoever being in South America.

Also this ignores the fact that the Ukrainian president was elected on a mandate of keeping Russia at arms length and not giving them undue influence over the country, something a lot of Ukrainians were concerned about at the time. At the last second he suddenly ditches a whole host of EU agreements with no warning, cancels future cooperation with the West and jumps into a Russian trade agreement among other things. The people of Ukraine and the West saw this for what it was, Putin had used bully boy tactics to get this guy to submit, just as he has done on ALL his neighbours. There was no chance for new elections and many Ukrainians saw their president as handing Ukraine over to the Russians. The US certainly helped matters along but don't pretend the US was the instigator here, it was the Russians who instigated it.

As for Crimea being part of Russia for ages, Crimea was part of Russia for as long as Ireland was part of the UK. Think about that and then realise you've basically just said Britain is well within it's rights to just annex Ireland whenever it wants...

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

My biggest problem with the Russia thing is that the keeps lying about it. If he would be transparent I really wouldn't care.
But he is acting like he did something really f'in stupid, so he probably did do something really f'in stupid.

 

[Skylinerd1]

There is a world of difference between trying to maintain good relations with people and what Trump is doing which is singly praising and glorifying all things Russian, something he isn't doing with any other country in the world. If Trump was treating every country and world leader well then it would be different but he isn't, he's outright disrespectful to all world leaders except Putin. This goes beyond merely trying to repair relations, the Russians have sway over him. Also there is a strong suspicion that this isn't feigned friendship, that happens all the time, this is looking more like another nation that has some control over him and he is doing his best to stay on their good side. He's opposing sanctions on Russia for their invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea yet turns around and happily talks about slapping tariffs on the Chinese and Mexicans, there is a fundamental inconsistency in how he treats Russia and Putin compared to everyone else.

Also in your other responses you ignore fundamental differences between Mexico and Eastern Europe. Russia has no historical ties to Mexico, the USA very much has ties to Europe. Russia also has no military alliances or any reason to be in South America, the USA has a strong military relationship with Europe going back decades, further in the case of Britain and France. NATO has every reason to be close to Russia's border because NATO states exist there in western Europe, Russia has no business whatsoever being in South America.

Also this ignores the fact that the Ukrainian president was elected on a mandate of keeping Russia at arms length and not giving them undue influence over the country, something a lot of Ukrainians were concerned about at the time. At the last second he suddenly ditches a whole host of EU agreements with no warning, cancels future cooperation with the West and jumps into a Russian trade agreement among other things. The people of Ukraine and the West saw this for what it was, Putin had used bully boy tactics to get this guy to submit, just as he has done on ALL his neighbours. There was no chance for new elections and many Ukrainians saw their president as handing Ukraine over to the Russians. The US certainly helped matters along but don't pretend the US was the instigator here, it was the Russians who instigated it.

As for Crimea being part of Russia for ages, Crimea was part of Russia for as long as Ireland was part of the UK. Think about that and then realise you've basically just said Britain is well within it's rights to just annex Ireland whenever it wants...

Epic stupidity in this post. Not even going to bother as you like many in the MSM and US/world political system are beyond saving. You accept the status quo is correct at every step. Its not.

A quote from Oliver Stone:

"I now fully realize how World War I started. People in power never really thought it would happen, and when it did, thought it'd be over in weeks. You should know the rest of that history. It doesn't end well," Stone concluded.

 

[The Jones Boy]

@Rancher; Trump obviously has business interests connected with Russia, or even on Russian soil.
He's obviously interested in protecting that business.
Putin wants to do business with the west, Trump wants to do business full stop.
I don't know if Trump understands much outside of business but he does understand trade.
He doesn't appreciate that he can't do trade with a super power that doesn't have the upper hand in the trade war, in the same way that China definitely does.
The Hawks in the Pentagon are not having it, they are desperate to cling on to their income stream from the military industrial complex.
So the lies about Russia being evil must continue to be peddled.

 

[ncurd]

I dunno Russia I wouldn't really call Russia the good guys their human rights record especially to people who disagree with the government is pretty awful. I wouldn't chose to live there.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Epic stupidity in this post. Not even going to bother as you like many in the MSM and US/world political system are beyond saving. You accept the status quo is correct at every step. Its not.

A quote from Oliver Stone:

"I now fully realize how World War I started. People in power never really thought it would happen, and when it did, thought it'd be over in weeks. You should know the rest of that history. It doesn't end well," Stone concluded.

And a quote for you: "It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

@Rancher; Trump obviously has business interests connected with Russia, or even on Russian soil.
He's obviously interested in protecting that business.
Putin wants to do business with the west, Trump wants to do business full stop.
I don't know if Trump understands much outside of business but he does understand trade.
He doesn't appreciate that he can't do trade with a super power that doesn't have the upper hand in the trade war, in the same way that China definitely does.
The Hawks in the Pentagon are not having it, they are desperate to cling on to their income stream from the military industrial complex.
So the lies about Russia being evil must continue to be peddled.

As president he is supposed to have divested ALL his business interests. If he hasn't that is an impeachable offense. He is now president of the USA, NOT CEO and owner of the Trump brand. Putin doesn't want to do business with the West at all, the whole reason he bullied Ukraine into backing out of EU trade is because he thought the west would trade more with Ukraine and then indirectly that would then trade on with Russia hurting Russian exports. For example Ukraine previously bought locomotives from Russia that were basically 2nd hand pass ons, the EU was offering to sell superior equipment and Putin got jittery. Also Trump doesn't want to do business, I just pointed out Russia is the ONLY country in the entire world he is trying to improve relations with, every other country he is attempting to bully and damage trade with. He doesn't want others exporting to the USA so is looking at whacking tariffs on various countries, but not Russia. How does this not stink to you?

You're making out it's the warhawks vs a peace loving Trump. The same Trump who has taken the most belligerent foreign policy stance in recent US history to everyone who isn't Russia, the same Trump who campaigned around trade protectionism and building a wall along the border, the Trump who said he wants to see the EU fail, that Mexico is full of bad people, that China are a currency manipulator, the Trump who dropped a ridiculous bomb in the middle East to try to make himself look good, the Trump who has upped the heat in North Korea with lots of posturing, THAT Trump you think is having problems with warhawks? Trump has no problem with causing a conflict at all, again Russia is the ONLY country getting nice treatment, everyone else Trump is looking to pick a fight with. He has in less than half a year destroyed Americas credibility abroad and done more damage to American diplomacy in that time than any recent president.

 

[General Melchett]

A better comparison with the Russia/Crimea is the USA bulldozing their way into Guantanamo. Russia has a far stronger case given that most of the residents in Crimea still have strong ties to Russia and remain pro-Russia. Can't say the same about the residents of Guantanamo being pro-American.

The hypocracy with the alleged Russian medalling in the US election is nothing short of staggering. Hilary was the one who bank rolled the Russian protests just before Putin was re-elected. Not much mention of that in the media these days though.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Hilary was the one who bank rolled the Russian protests just before Putin was re-elected. Not much mention of that in the media these days though.

This... where is the discussion about what a festering C**T Hilary Clinton is???
Trump was a poor candidate by any stretch.
Yet, he came from a long way back and steamrolled the worst presidential candidate in the history of US Elections.
She is a vile poisonous parasite.
I'm thoroughly grateful that hateful ***** didn't get in and I am no Republican.
What were the democrats thiunking putting that asp into the election.
She is a warmongering sack of crap who sold several women down the toilet by paying them off for her husbands ongoing philandering but she needed it swept under the carpet for the sake of her poxy career.
Trump used that element very effectively in the debates and stymied Hilary from using Bill Cunton in the debates.

Trump by contrast is an entertaining plonker.
He's a bombast, and an irritant but nobody takes his tweetings seriously, unless they're not all there.
He's interested in trade, not wars and not trade wars.
Trade very heavily in favour of the US of course.
Most of all he's interested in his self image as @POTUS.
What the heck is POTUS.
He's a class A numpty but he's funny.

 

[General Melchett]

I think Hilary had the senior members of the DMC in her back pocket. Some kind of deal was done years ago which effectively got her the nomination on a plate. Sanders was stitched up as most people know.

CNN is the most rotten and biased news channel ever. It's basically turned into a pro-DMC anti-Trump channel that does nothing but slate Trump as some sort of attempt either to eventually get him impeached or make him unelectable in four years time. He is a complete and utter bafoon and his victory just highlights how disliked Clinton was. If she runs again then I can see the Republicans getting Trump to stand down after his term and if not they'll push for impeachment just before campaigning starts as he'll be too damaged by the time the mainstream media have another four years playing the Russia collusion card not to mention the other dirt they'll dig up.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

This... where is the discussion about what a festering C**T Hilary Clinton is???
Trump was a poor candidate by any stretch.
Yet, he came from a long way back and steamrolled the worst presidential candidate in the history of US Elections.
She is a vile poisonous parasite.
I'm thoroughly grateful that hateful ***** didn't get in and I am no Republican.
What were the democrats thiunking putting that asp into the election.
She is a warmongering sack of crap who sold several women down the toilet by paying them off for her husbands ongoing philandering but she needed it swept under the carpet for the sake of her poxy career.
Trump used that element very effectively in the debates and stymied Hilary from using Bill Cunton in the debates.

Trump by contrast is an entertaining plonker.
He's a bombast, and an irritant but nobody takes his tweetings seriously, unless they're not all there.
He's interested in trade, not wars and not trade wars.
Trade very heavily in favour of the US of course.
Most of all he's interested in his self image as @POTUS.
What the heck is POTUS.
He's a class A numpty but he's funny.

That "hateful *****" and "worst presidential candidate in US history" got 3 million more votes than Trump and only the way the votes were distributed led to Trumps victory. So, Trump got less votes than who you claim is the worse candidate ever, think about that for a moment. Trump isn't interest in trade, name ONE positive contribution he has made to trade with another nation and now compare that to all the negative contributions, how the **** can you say he cares about trade?

He's not an entertaining plonker, he's a compulsive lying, narcissistic maniac who has openly stated he will happily put the healthcare of millions of American in jeopardy just to get his way. You think that is ******* entertaining? You think his calls for trade wars are entertaining?

POTUS is President of the United States...

He's not funny, he is a vile individual who is abusing his position and systematically destroying America's image and position in the world, he is an insecure idiot who in any other system would be a dictatorial tyrant. Fortunately people much more intelligent than him set the American system up in such a way that it is incredibly difficult to achieve that, although the Republicans appear to be happily ******** on the concept of integrity to make it happen. After years of obstruction and blocking everything Obama tried, for them to now cry obstruction and to attempt to bulldoze legislation through with no oversight... The hypocrisy and lack of any integrity, shame or moral compass among these ***** is astonishing. They would sell their grans if they thought they could get further from it. There is not a shred of decency anywhere in the Republican party.

 

[Skylinerd1]

That "hateful *****" and "worst presidential candidate in US history" got 3 million more votes than Trump and only the way the votes were distributed led to Trumps victory. So, Trump got less votes than who you claim is the worse candidate ever, think about that for a moment. Trump isn't interest in trade, name ONE positive contribution he has made to trade with another nation and now compare that to all the negative contributions, how the **** can you say he cares about trade?

He's not an entertaining plonker, he's a compulsive lying, narcissistic maniac who has openly stated he will happily put the healthcare of millions of American in jeopardy just to get his way. You think that is ******* entertaining? You think his calls for trade wars are entertaining?

POTUS is President of the United States...

He's not funny, he is a vile individual who is abusing his position and systematically destroying America's image and position in the world, he is an insecure idiot who in any other system would be a dictatorial tyrant. Fortunately people much more intelligent than him set the American system up in such a way that it is incredibly difficult to achieve that, although the Republicans appear to be happily ******** on the concept of integrity to make it happen. After years of obstruction and blocking everything Obama tried, for them to now cry obstruction and to attempt to bulldoze legislation through with no oversight... The hypocrisy and lack of any integrity, shame or moral compass among these ***** is astonishing. They would sell their grans if they thought they could get further from it. There is not a shred of decency anywhere in the Republican party.

Your argument is invalid because Hilldog is far worse than anything you can make up about Trump like above.

https://i.redd.it/8jworzuptwdz.jpg

 

[The Jones Boy]

That "hateful *****" and "worst presidential candidate in US history" got 3 million more votes than Trump and only the way the votes were distributed led to Trumps victory.

His irritating tweets will tell you everything and all that mattered is...

HE WON !!

Yes.
The system of voting colleges is totally bogus but he still won according to the ridiculous USA electoral set up.
She got destroyed by a numpty who came from so far back in the field you needed a Hubble telescope to see where he started from.
Thats how unelectable she is, that is how poisonous she is.
She has no respect for other women who have been abuseed by her husband. She will pay them off because she cannot allow her career to be ruined. She is a power mad witch.

... he's a compulsive lying, narcissistic maniac ...

All of that and nepotistic, jobs for the family... and a serial tweeter, he's very entertaining. It's some of the worst of US society under the microscope, so much better than his TV show.

There is not a shred of decency anywhere in the Republican party.

Oh I agree, there never has been, but the world is lumped with them mate, just enjoy the entertainment until the Democrats can put up a decent candidate.

 

[The Jones Boy]

In other news, the Tory party here in the UK are no better...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...may-petrol-car-ban-martin-freer-a7877561.html

Or

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...audi-forces-torture-theresa-may-a7878361.html

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

His irritating tweets will tell you everything and all that mattered is...

HE WON !!

Yes.
The system of voting colleges is totally bogus but he still won according to the ridiculous USA electoral set up.
She got destroyed by a numpty who came from so far back in the field you needed a Hubble telescope to see where he started from.
Thats how unelectable she is, that is how poisonous she is.
She has no respect for other women who have been abuseed by her husband. She will pay them off because she cannot allow her career to be ruined. She is a power mad witch.

All of that and nepotistic, jobs for the family... and a serial tweeter, he's very entertaining. It's some of the worst of US society under the microscope, so much better than his TV show.

Oh I agree, there never has been, but the world is lumped with them mate, just enjoy the entertainment until the Democrats can put up a decent candidate.

The thing is it stops being entertainment when it starts causing actual harm and Trumps idiocy and narcissism are causing actual harm. Hillary was a **** candidate but Trump is far worse. Hillary may have paid off some women, what do you think Trump has done? Couple that with causing numerous small businesses to go under by not paying them and just telling them to take him to court if the disagreed where he would steamroller them with a much larger legal team.

This is about the most coherent trump can be

 

[General Melchett]

They are arguably as bad as each other. Hilary doesn't look as bad as she has experience on the political stage and is less gaff prone. She is however spiteful and calculating and to play the woman card after paying off Bill's women is hypocrisy of the highest order.

 

[Gavin]

The one thing I can see as a positive from Trump being in power is that, IMO, there will be no Russian / USA conflict (at least both armies against each other).

You can see this through the recent USA sanctions against Russia and that Trump did not want to sign them off but was effectively forced to by Congress.

I can't imagine how Clinton would have upped the Russian hating to full scale conflict. I mean she said that when she won she'd send in troops to Syria.

Trump is an idiot and will do negative things to the USA, but will leave most of the world alone. Clinton on the other hand would have done positive things for the USA, but would cause conflict with the rest of the world.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Hilary is partially financed by the military industrial complex.
She is duty bound to cause conflict wherever she can and fighting the big bad from the cold war is a perfect opportunity for her to open old wounds.
Given her way the yanks would be going back into Vietnam.