A Political Thread

[McTallshort]

to expect that he was able to get everything he had on his table done is ridiculous

when closing gitmo was on the senate floor it got shut down 91-3

gun control will never happen as long as our congress is set up so that rural areas have more representation

war is very popular in the United States, we love it

race relations are only worse because a whole bunch of people really didn't like a black person leading their country

Can a President not push an executive order through bypassing Congress?

On the last point...yes your probably right

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Can a President not push an executive order through bypassing Congress?

On the last point...yes your probably right

he could have, but apparently military officials were against it and I think it's a pretty small group of americans that actually want it done

so yeah... i really wish he had done that but honestly he got a lot more done than a lot of people expected that he would be able to

 

[The Jones Boy]

And you could die like an animal.....
Let me know if you come, we can feed the ducks, and then have our first kiss under the moonlight xxxx

Ha Ha Get in there Tigs

 

[j'nuh]

Does any one else get freaked out by his little hands? Sorry I know its not PC to say that but it does bug me.

So over 1 million people have signed a petition to stop him meeting the Queen. Does anyone think it will make a difference? For better or Worse he is the elected leader of the most powerful nation on earth and we all need to suck it up. This always happens with politics/football Managers/COE's when people want change they tend to go for the opposite not always an improvement. You have a not overly popular President in Obama who was perhaps the most ineffective President since Carter and he gets replaced with a populist, go getter (we think) in Trump.

It's more about holding Theresa May to account, trying to stop her from making us dependent on USA and stopping us being complicit. Along the lines of: "May, look at how unhappy we are with Trump. Don't throw our lot in with his."

Leaving the EU makes it particularly important. We're going to have two years of bruising negotiations and there could be tensions between the UK and the rest of the EU. We may be tempted to draw closer to USA as a result. I really hope we don't... I hope we look to Canada, Australia, Norway, Iceland, Switzerland, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand (and so on) instead.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ha Ha Get in there Tigs

It takes more than a fat duck, to get my duck bruv.

I'm not easy.

 

[McTallshort]

It's more about holding Theresa May to account, trying to stop her from making us dependent on USA and stopping us being complicit. Along the lines of: "May, look at how unhappy we are with Trump. Don't throw our lot in with his."

Leaving the EU makes it particularly important. We're going to have two years of bruising negotiations and there could be tensions between the UK and the rest of the EU. We may be tempted to draw closer to USA as a result. I really hope we don't... I hope we look to Canada, Australia, Norway, Iceland, Switzerland, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand (and so on) instead.

And Brazil perhaps... We are dependent on the USA anyway. Look at NATO, the yanks contribute 80% of all NATOs strength. They are also one of our biggest export markets.

Look lets get some perspective on this. We (the UK), Australia and the EU for the most part have no problem sucking up to the Chinese and enjoying state visits/trade/the whole 9 yards. This is a country that dumps cheap steel on the world market threatening jobs in Wales, devalues its currency, deals with North Korea and sells big nasty weapons to anyone who wants to buy them. Their human rights record is appalling and we are worried about a bit of water boarding and the banning of some people who are not even British from travelling to the USA?

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

And Brazil perhaps... We are dependent on the USA anyway. Look at NATO, the yanks contribute 80% of all NATOs strength. They are also one of our biggest export markets.

Look lets get some perspective on this. We (the UK), Australia and the EU for the most part have no problem sucking up to the Chinese and enjoying state visits/trade/the whole 9 yards. This is a country that dumps cheap steel on the world market threatening jobs in Wales, devalues its currency, deals with North Korea and sells big nasty weapons to anyone who wants to buy them. Their human rights record is appalling and we are worried about a bit of water boarding and the banning of some people who are not even British being banned from travelling to the USA?

well that was depressingly accurate, i don't feel good now

 

[j'nuh]

And Brazil perhaps... We are dependent on the USA anyway. Look at NATO, the yanks contribute 80% of all NATOs strength. They are also one of our biggest export markets.

Look lets get some perspective on this. We (the UK), Australia and the EU for the most part have no problem sucking up to the Chinese and enjoying state visits/trade/the whole 9 yards. This is a country that dumps cheap steel on the world market threatening jobs in Wales, devalues its currency, deals with North Korea and sells big nasty weapons to anyone who wants to buy them. Their human rights record is appalling and we are worried about a bit of water boarding and the banning of some people who are not even British being banned from travelling to the USA?

I agree with you, but China doesn't evoke the same vociferous response because our news only covers China on the most rudimentary level. People aren't going to complain about what they don't know about. Also, USA is the only global superpower. Fascism creeping into USA is a lot scarier than anywhere else. There's also that we generally hold USA in a higher regard and expect a higher standard from them.

 

[McTallshort]

Its currently the only Super power, China isn't far behind and ignorance isn't an excuse, yes we all enjoy cheap products from China completely ignoring the conditions the workers have to live in (and the workers who pick it when it gets back to the UK), ignore the almost biblical amounts of damage they are doing to the planet and their appalling records on human rights but rally against an elected President for doing frankly what he said he was going to do.

I was listening to a former aid to Trump on radio 4 today and despite the BBC interviewers best attempts she was completely unapologetic about the travel ban and I think many Americans think its a good idea. As I said earlier: we have just got to suck it up.

 

[Peat]

Ignorance may not be an excuse, but it is a reason, and ignorance of the world outside the First World is hardly new.

And vociferous complaint and protest might have been part of the decision to temporarily (at least) legally block some of it. Who knows what happens if the protests keep happening?

End of the day - once upon a time we'd have told Brexiters to suck it up for much the same reasons. And Trump supporters. And so on. Continued complaining works.

So no, I don't see why we have just got to suck it up.

 

[McTallshort]

Ignorance may not be an excuse, but it is a reason, and ignorance of the world outside the First World is hardly new.

And vociferous complaint and protest might have been part of the decision to temporarily (at least) legally block some of it. Who knows what happens if the protests keep happening?

End of the day - once upon a time we'd have told Brexiters to suck it up for much the same reasons. And Trump supporters. And so on. Continued complaining works.

So no, I don't see why we have just got to suck it up.

So what are going to do then?

Keep signing on line petitions until you realize none gives a toss?

 

[Peat]

So what are going to do then?

Keep signing on line petitions until you realize none gives a toss?

Yeah, that's what I was advocating.

 

[The Jones Boy]

USA is the only global superpower. Fascism creeping into USA is a lot scarier than anywhere else.

This +1

 

[ncurd]

Why does it matter more in the US?

For one culturally they possibly closest to us and have a significant impact on us. Most entertainment media we consume is produced by them and in turn we are one of their biggest influencers from outside the US. This level of cross cultural influence is important as the American conversation influences ours.

Secondly this is seen as a regression not as advancement, part of the problem is the sheer level of misinformation out there (heard the one about Obama in 2011, not true it was extreme vetting in response to a particular incident and did not effect visa holders and people don't want to believe the truth). The level of confirmation bias out there is insane, I'm having to fact check everything now.

Most importantly US foreign policy tends to dictate UK foreign policy (pretty much has done since at least Thatcher) unless we show we don't agree with it its likely our own goverment we adopt similar stances. May's problem is she needs a good trade deal with the US pretty much her entire premiership is contingent on it get a poor one or not even have the begining of one by 2020 and I think she'd struggle for seats as people will look elsewhere for answers or not be enthused to vote.



China on the other hand whilst appalling (and there were mass protests when they came, not on this scale mind) is extremely slowly getting better. But when you expect someone to be terrible for some reason you can turn a blind eye to it.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

It also matters particularly with the US because, since we decided to detach ourselves from the EU, we're now sidling up to the HMS America in our ****ty little dingy to desperately try and compensate for our loss of influence and belonging in Europe with perhaps, a more common 'North Atlantic' identity. We're in danger of exchanging 'those oppressive EU laws' (which by the way nobody can name when pressed) for an oppressive reliance upon the United States which prevents our politicians from doing what may be in the best interests of our country or speaking out about things which matter (such as, you know, global human rights....)

Independence? What independence

 

[McTallshort]

Were we not in the EU when we attached ourselves to the war in Iraq?

 

[Which Tyler]

Meh - I don't see anything to worry about; the "Leaders of the Free World" are simply abandoning freedom, and isolating themselves from the world; whilst trying to maintain their position of leadership.
What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Were we not in the EU when we attached ourselves to the war in Iraq?

I just don't get what's driving your thought process here ... you think that just because while we were in the EU and we followed the US into Iraq, that means there's no scope for becoming more ideologically similar to and politically reliant upon the US in future?

 

[McTallshort]

My point is we tend to follow whatever America does for the right of wrong reasons anyway, its doesn't make the blindest bit of difference if we are in the EU or not.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

My point is we tend to follow whatever America does for the right of wrong reasons anyway, its doesn't make the blindest bit of difference if we are in the EU or not.

Well again you're over simplifying massively. We have a historically close relationship with the US and have periodically followed them into things we shouldn't have. But despite all of this, our political and social consensus including the sense of what is acceptable in either country has never been particularly similar. There is plenty of scope to become closer to America, and if you don't think our leaders are more concerned with finding a new diplomatic paradigm and with tiptoeing around other allies now that we've left the EU, you're deluding yourself.