A Political Thread

[ncurd]

Yeah because people with green cards in America are illegal criminals.....

 

[j'nuh]

It's appalling all right. A president protecting the borders. Shocking stuff! Before you know it those poor unfortunate illegal criminals (dreamers?) will start being deported. Lol

Two angles I'll come from:

(1) It does more harm than good. Terrorism is exceptionally rare, racism is commonplace. Fearing terrorism is irrational: you may as well fear lightning such are the chances you'll be attacked. On the other hand, such a policy legitimises and increases racism. Closing your borders to refugees also puts them in harms way. It also creates ill will towards the United States.

(2) It doesn't even target countries prone for producing terrorists. The 9/11 hijackers include 15 Saudi Arabians and four from Egypt, Lebanon and United Arab Emirates. None of these hijackers would have been banned.

It's policy that backfires and doesn't even do what it sets out to do. It's folly.

 

[Groundhog]

Those people were rioting as he was being sworn in as president. The left were not always ****** off though. At first they were all laughing at Trump when he announced he would run for the presidency. He was the butt of many jokes. Well they're not laughing now. Just goes to show how out of touch they are.

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It's appalling all right. A president protecting the borders. Shocking stuff! Before you know it those poor unfortunate illegal criminals (dreamers?) will start being deported. Lol

No they're not laughing because Twitler is not even remotely funny anymore. He's doing an appalling job, has managed to bring America closer to the brink than it's been for year, implemented a ban that clearly omits nations he has money tied up among them, chief among them Saudi Arabia, proving he's spineless on top of stupid, appointed a cabinet of people who actively oppose the things they're supposed to be promoting (I'll ask again, how is putting a climate change sceptic in charge of the EPA anything but madness). Oh and also some of those illegal criminals he's not letting in are not illegal or criminals. He will deny anyone travelling from these countries green card or not.
Out of touch is thinking that alienating an entire religion, your neighbors to the north and south, the majority of Europe, your NATO military allies and over half of your own population will end in anything in disaster.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Do we do the hey hey ho ho chant in this country? Becuase it is pretty rubbish way to stay a chant.

 

[McTallshort]

Does any one else get freaked out by his little hands? Sorry I know its not PC to say that but it does bug me.

So over 1 million people have signed a petition to stop him meeting the Queen. Does anyone think it will make a difference? For better or Worse he is the elected leader of the most powerful nation on earth and we all need to suck it up. This always happens with politics/football Managers/COE's when people want change they tend to go for the opposite not always an improvement. You have a not overly popular President in Obama who was perhaps the most ineffective President since Carter and he gets replaced with a populist, go getter (we think) in Trump.

 

[ncurd]

I didn't sign it because of that very reason it's a waste of everyones time and money he'll still come regardless.

Personally I'd rather we only gave state visits to world leader that actually share our values. But honestly they are more used for political gambits to impress people into.liking us enough to give us what they want. Mind you its really hard when 52% of the voting public decided to shoot ourselves in the foot to do anything else. We are world leaders no more and influence is waning on the international stage.

 

[Groundhog]

These petitions to block leaders coming/ discourage your leader from visiting are stupid. Shutting down opportunities to get your countries point of view and reason across should not be sniffed at. For now he's the leader of the States and there is no superlative body to go to so as to make Trump play nice. The U.N sure as hell won't be doing anything besides pointing and screaming as they've done for years. That's the job of Prime Ministers, Presidents etc, to represent and defend their countries views and interest, not passively ignoring those who oppose or could damage them.
What I don't encourage is rolling over and sticking to the usual "we had a very productive conversation" line which usually means they played the Wii for 90 minutes.

 

[McTallshort]

I didn't sign it because of that very reason it's a waste of everyones time and money he'll still come regardless.

Personally I'd rather we only gave state visits to world leader that actually share our values. But honestly they are more used for political gambits to impress people into.liking us enough to give us what they want. Mind you its really hard when 52% of the voting public decided to shoot ourselves in the foot to do anything else. We are world leaders no more and influence is waning on the international stage.

We haven't been world leaders since Suez and I never got how being part of a 28 country superstate improved our influence...but then we always disagree on that.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Does any one else get freaked out by his little hands? Sorry I know its not PC to say that but it does bug me.

So over 1 million people have signed a petition to stop him meeting the Queen. Does anyone think it will make a difference? For better or Worse he is the elected leader of the most powerful nation on earth and we all need to suck it up. This always happens with politics/football Managers/COE's when people want change they tend to go for the opposite not always an improvement. You have a not overly popular President in Obama who was perhaps the most ineffective President since Carter and he gets replaced with a populist, go getter (we think) in Trump.

So obama really wasn't that unpopular... his average approval rating was 48% and his lowest approval rating ever was 38% which is higher than every president since JFK (although I imagine he is wildy unpopular in the countries where we bombed their elementary schools and hospitals)

saying that he was ineffective is just disingenuous: ACA, stimulus, Dodd Frank, we left Iraq, got rid of DADT, gays can marry, student loan reform, the list goes on and on

that petition will make a diifference, if western countries refuse to meet with him his whole shtick about being a great leader who gets deals done goes straight down the toilet

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I hate how people use tragic events to score internet points on social media.

Instead of feeling sad for those involved it is instead both sides hoping they can blame someone who fits their narrative.

FFS.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I hate how people use tragic events to score internet points on social media.

Instead of feeling sad for those involved it is instead both sides hoping they can blame someone who fits their narrative.

FFS.

they are called "woke points" and i hate those people

 

[ncurd]

Groundhog if you read the petition it specifically states that Trump can still visit just not get and official state visit. Bush came to visit here but we never rolled out the Queen to him. Mind you we did send the Queen for their top smoosing.

I have been wondering though how much better things would be had John McCain actually beaten Obama or if Congress wasn't hostile.

 

[McTallshort]

So obama really wasn't that unpopular... his average approval rating was 48% and his lowest approval rating ever was 38% which is higher than every president since JFK (although I imagine he is wildy unpopular in the countries where we bombed their elementary schools and hospitals)

saying that he was ineffective is just disingenuous: ACA, stimulus, Dodd Frank, we left Iraq, got rid of DADT, gays can marry, student loan reform, the list goes on and on

that petition will make a diifference, if western countries refuse to meet with him his whole shtick about being a great leader who gets deals done goes straight down the toilet

Guantanamo still open, Russians on the rise, been at war longer than any American President, still no effective gun control, worse race relations and I am pretty sure their are still American troops in Iraq.

 

[ncurd]

I hate how people use tragic events to score internet points on social media.

Instead of feeling sad for those involved it is instead both sides hoping they can blame someone who fits their narrative.

FFS.

Aye the two reasons I'm ****** off by this is poor implementation and the wholesale ban regardless of circumstance. I'm not particularly impressed by not letting in refugees of.countries your bombing either.

Trumps hypocrisy of the countrys selected annoys me but I expect that. We have plenty of that when it comes to the middle east too.

However any sense has been completely thrown out th3 window with the yelling of snowflake and he won get over it. The left haven't been saints either but I've seen less of their nonsense.

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Guantanamo still open, Russians on the rise, been at war longer than any American President, still no effective gun control, worse race relations and I am pretty sure their are still American troops in Iraq.

TBF on gun control I think Obama would of really like to of sorted that one out. The rest fair chop although the reduction in troops in Iraq is one of the reasons for the rise of ISIS

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

These petitions to block leaders coming/ discourage your leader from visiting are stupid. Shutting down opportunities to get your countries point of view and reason across should not be sniffed at.

Don't agree that it's this simple. These petitions are pie in the sky with regard to their specific objectives but they all sum up the same thing which is making it clear to our pathetic leadership - both in government and in opposition - where public opinion lies and telling them that we want a proper, principled and responsible stance on key policy matters. The petition in question is never going to have Trumps visit to the UK postponed or cancelled, but what it can do is be big enough that May, Johnson and all the rest take note. If it brings about even tiny incremental changes in their language and what they say and don't say, it's worth it. While in the macro-picture America is more important to Britain than keeping public opinion on side, to individual politicians in popularity terms, the reverse is true.

 

[Groundhog]

Groundhog if you read the petition it specifically states that Trump can still visit just not get and official state visit. Bush came to visit here but we never rolled out the Queen to him. Mind you we did send the Queen for their top smoosing.

I have been wondering though how much better things would be had John McCain actually beaten Obama or if Congress wasn't hostile.

Hm okay it's less silly than most petitions I've seen about this stuff, but who cares if they roll out Jeremy Clarkson and David Blaine, it's the same result. It's kinda crazy that the only one who is really able to bring Trump down to earth is the Republican party at this stage. I do find it encouraging that guys with a decent amount of sway in the party like McCain are speaking up. Ryan is an insect though.
Oh and Trump has now said vaccines cause Autism. Three cheers for the resurgence of Polio guys

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Don't agree that it's this simple. These petitions are pie in the sky with regard to their specific objectives but they all sum up the same thing which is making it clear to our pathetic leadership - both in government and in opposition - where public opinion lies and telling them that we want a proper, principled and responsible stance on key policy matters. The petition in question is never going to have Trumps visit to the UK postponed or cancelled, but what it can do is be big enough that May, Johnson and all the rest take note. If it brings about even tiny incremental changes in their language and what they say and don't say, it's worth it. While in the macro-picture America is more important to Britain than keeping public opinion on side, to individual politicians in popularity terms, the reverse is true.

And in that sense I agree entirely. I think that media and the public in general should seriously apply pressure on this, I just feel petitions tend to lack much legitimacy these days due to the fact anyone can jump on them. If it does bring around a positive result though, more power to them.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Guantanamo still open, Russians on the rise, been at war longer than any American President, still no effective gun control, worse race relations and I am pretty sure their are still American troops in Iraq.

to expect that he was able to get everything he had on his table done is ridiculous

when closing gitmo was on the senate floor it got shut down 91-3

gun control will never happen as long as our congress is set up so that rural areas have more representation

war is very popular in the United States, we love it

race relations are only worse because a whole bunch of people really didn't like a black person leading their country

 

[Peat]

Right now the main thing that protesting against Trump can do is move the Overton Window away from him. There may not be much that can be done about him for the next four years but the effort can at least be made to ensure that he's not seen as acceptable for the next x.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Might go to Ireland instead of America this year.

With my £50 I could live like a king.

 

[Groundhog]

Might go to Ireland instead of America this year.

With my £50 I could live like a king.

And you could die like an animal.....
Let me know if you come, we can feed the ducks, and then have our first kiss under the moonlight xxxx