A Political Thread

[The Jones Boy]

There has been a surge in eastern europeans coming into England since the Brexit vote.
The indications they are predominantly unskilled and don't have much English language ability if any.

There has been a steady trickle of departures as well but only those who have skills and have made their money. They are in a position to go home better off than when they arrived.

 

[dragos03]

An an Eastern European, I can tell you that UK companies are running some massive recruitment campaigns here. There are loads of ads in the newspapers and online, many of them require little or no English knowledge at all.

There wouldn't be high immigration without a massive need for workers, Brexit will not solve this problem but only make it worse. Those unskilled people go to the UK to do the ****ty jobs rejected by the locals.

 

[ratsapprentice]

There wouldn't be high immigration without a massive need for workers, Brexit will not solve this problem but only make it worse. Those unskilled people go to the UK to do the ****ty jobs rejected by the locals.

Not quite as simple as that.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Actually, it is as simple as that.
Immigration of migrant workers from greater eastern europe into the UK is on the increase since Brexit.
The vast majority of those coming are not skilled workers and have little or no English.

As for the locals not wanting the work?
Thats a harder one to pin down.
England provides free health care, free education and a social welfare system where benefits are accessible for the unemployed, or to help with child care etc.
It can be the case that it's harder for an indigenous population used to having these advantages to accept doing mundane physical jobs with long hours for low wages.
They don't have the same level of 'need' as a motivating tool compared to the incoming migrant workers.

 

[dragos03]

Spot on. There is no motivation for a local to accept a very hard job in constructions or elderly care for example, when they can get the same money from benefits. Unless social policies change (and no government will have the guts to do that), a large number of migrants will always be needed to fill these positions. Blocking these people from working in the UK will only hurt the economy. It must also be noted that Eastern European migrants do not live from benefits (as the tabloids have always claimed), most of them work, pay their taxes and actually contribute to the system.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I will not be singing in the presidential inauguration.

Fair play to the singers etc standing up for there beliefs but I swear half of them prob weren't even ask like for example Charlotte church is she even known in America?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Spot on. There is no motivation for a local to accept a very hard job in constructions or elderly care for example, when they can get the same money from benefits. Unless social policies change (and no government will have the guts to do that), a large number of migrants will always be needed to fill these positions.

I disagree.

If we had no immigrants, we wouldn't end up with no-one doing jobs that are actually necessary - the jobs would be done by locals for a higher price.

If Romania (only using it as an example because I'm replying to you) had an influx of workers from a country with a much lower cost of living/GDP who were prepared to do the same jobs for significantly lower wages than Romanians then you'd have the same issue. It's not the same when it comes to industries where labour can be outsourced overseas, but for situations where the employees are necessarily located here, I think that's the case.

 

[Groundhog]

I will not be singing in the presidential inauguration.

Fair play to the singers etc standing up for there beliefs but I swear half of them prob weren't even ask like for example Charlotte church is she even known in America?

Most American's don't know what Wales is mate, never mind Charlotte Church.
In other news, the British Isles' equivalent of the child who gets pantsed in the schoolyard only to be wearing a nappy despite being 12 years old, Northern Ireland is undergoing another fairly classic scandal, namely the 'cash for ash' scheme. Basically Arlene Foster undertook a scheme which encouraged businesses to invest in wood pellet boilers instead of gas. Sounds good in principle, but old thick **** Arlene Foster essentially promised 1.60 in grants for every 1 pound spent by businesses. Not not 60p for every pound spent. 1.60. These are maths a child can see are awful, and this woman wants to negotiate the terms of Brexit for NI? This essentially means the scheme is a license to print money for (certain) businesses as there's no cap on it.
Here's a very good summary: http://www.thejournal.ie/what-is-cash-for-ash-scandal-3177793-Jan2017/?utm_source=shortlink
Arlene has tried everything from claiming it was a Republican scheme to crying sexism (coming from the leader of a party whose leaders used to moo at female members of government, and still holds many members with long histories of sexism, and a party which is still proudly anti gay-marriage). The best thing about it is that it's the cronies and financial donors of the DUP who seem to be benefiting most heavily. Meanwhile the people of Northern Ireland are suffering as there's not enough money for mental health services as well as another bunch of basic public services as the DUP are more concerned with buying flutes for their marching bands.
This Power Sharing Executive is about to crash and burn if idiots living in the 1970s from either side are allowed to shape the discussion in NI and give the normal majority of people of Ireland interested in reconciliation and moving forward a bad name.

 

[dragos03]

I disagree.

If we had no immigrants, we wouldn't end up with no-one doing jobs that are actually necessary - the jobs would be done by locals for a higher price.

If Romania (only using it as an example because I'm replying to you) had an influx of workers from a country with a much lower cost of living/GDP who were prepared to do the same jobs for significantly lower wages than Romanians then you'd have the same issue. It's not the same when it comes to industries where labour can be outsourced overseas, but for situations where the employees are necessarily located here, I think that's the case.

There are millions of immigrants working now in the UK. Are there really millions of locals available to replace them and take those jobs, even if the pay was increased? Obviously not, a successful and expanding economy needs an increased number of workers, who can only come from migration.

And there is an influx of foreign workers even in poor Romania, although it's still on a low scale. But many of our workers, from construction guys to doctors, go West to earn more money and have to be replaced by foreigners. There are now Chinese workers on construction sites in Bucharest, Turkish builders on our motorways, Filipino maids who take care of our kids and Indian doctors in hospitals. The local workforce is basically depleted, we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in Europe.

Even if social benefits here are extremely low, there are still lazy people who rely on them and refuse to work.

 

[The Jones Boy]

It's not the same when it comes to industries where labour can be outsourced overseas, but for situations where the employees are necessarily located here, I think that's the case.

No mate, the numbers required in many places would not cover the number of workers required

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-most-divided-place-in-england-a6838041.html

In a town like Boston the traditional seasonal workers are'nt English and they haven't been English for a long time.
This is a key part of the problem. There is a generational gap where English seasonal workers have dropped off the radar.
They were Portuguese, who still remain in that role but now there are large numbers of eastern european workers along side them as the farming becomes more intensive.
Towns like Boston have seen their population skyrocket in the last 20 years.
If the non British workers here were made to leave by Brexit, the surrounding farm businesses would collapse.
Short term this would be a disaster.

 

[ncurd]

So tomorrow is probably the most significant moment in UK politics since the Brexit vote, the government will finally set out its plans for post-Brexit Britain and hopefully not be a bunch of meaningless platitudes like "Brexit mean Brexit" and we want a "Red, White and Blue Brexit"

Obviously the key will be our relationship with Europe afterwards because whilst Trump might promise a quick trade deal, I don't actually believe it can be quick. Plus we need to make sure we are strong and willing to take time, if we look desperate and ready to accept any deal we'll likely get shafted by multiple countries.

Certainly looking like we won't seek to keep access to the single market (which was never really an option, anyone who voted to leave believing it was possible was bonkers), so the question is mainly are we just going to straight WTO rules or looking to negotiate a decent trade deal with minimal tariffs.

The other big thing will be market reaction the pound keep threatening to tank and its not really recovered from the immediate reaction to the vote and only really stopped when it was clear article 50 was not immediate. Its threaten to lurch a few times and I think its merely doing that on speculation at the moment. Just remember when people say "yay we can sell thing for cheaper" ask yourself how many things in the supply lines require foreign imports as that will increase costs before we sell its not a perfect alignment. Actually on thought like that we might go down further the service industry route in this country rather than a rebirth in manufacturing as its one of the few things where we are not reliant on foreign imports (unless you count labour). If you plan to buy Euro's or Dollars this year for holiday do so today, the worst that will happen if you can buy them back tommorow at the same rate. Last year I made the mistake before Brexit vote and it cost me 150 quid (we planned to take a specific amount of dollars to the US with us).

- - - Updated - - -

UK 'cannot negotiate' US deal until after Brexit

From BBC Europe reporter Gavin Lee

The European Commission has reiterated that the UK will not be allowed to engage in formal talks of any capacity involving a trade deal with the US, until 2019, when Britain has finished the process of leaving the European Union.

The former UKIP leader and leading Brexit campaigner Nigel Farage, who's met with president-elect Donald Trump, says he expected a deal to be done within three months of Trump taking office.

Mr Trump, himself, has said he expects an agreement to be reached quickly although he has not out any timeframe on it.

But speaking to the BBC, a spokeswoman for the European Commission says that "categorically won't be possible", because formal talks "cannot take place in any official capacity until Britain has finished it's negotiations".

Damn those European letting facts get in the way!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Quite nervous really.

Was planning going to America and Canada for 3/4 months (get friends and releatives there), but don't have the money to exchange it all now.

 

[Peat]

Alas, I don't have everything in order for my ridiculously large transfer of funds to the US. Merde.

 

[ratsapprentice]

If the non British workers here were made to leave by Brexit, the surrounding farm businesses would collapse.
Short term this would be a disaster.

As callous as it sounds - that's fine by me.

If you don't have the workforce, it's not a viable business.

 

[ncurd]

As callous as it sounds - that's fine by me.

If you don't have the workforce, it's not a viable business.

As mad as it sounds, the collapse of farms my biggest worry would be the environment. I couldn't give a damn about the farmers business but as a lad who spend a fair amount of his childhood in the countryside walking across farmland (public footpath). But if they were going to go under what happens next? Farmers spend a fair amount of their time cultivating the landscape of Britain we wouldn't wabt to lose that.

Farming subsidies exist for a reason and its not so people can make money its about what that business produces beyond the monetary gain.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

As mad as it sounds, the collapse of farms my biggest worry would be the environment. I couldn't give a damn about the farmers business but as a lad who spend a fair amount of his childhood in the countryside walking across farmland (public footpath). But if they were going to go under what happens next? Farmers spend a fair amount of their time cultivating the landscape of Britain we wouldn't wabt to lose that.

Farming subsidies exist for a reason and its not so people can make money its about what that business produces beyond the monetary gain.

Are they not talking about American farming industry?

 

[ncurd]

Are they not talking about American farming industry?

The Independent article he linked to was about about Boston, Lincolshire.

 

[ratsapprentice]

As mad as it sounds, the collapse of farms my biggest worry would be the environment. I couldn't give a damn about the farmers business but as a lad who spend a fair amount of his childhood in the countryside walking across farmland (public footpath). But if they were going to go under what happens next? Farmers spend a fair amount of their time cultivating the landscape of Britain we wouldn't wabt to lose that.

Farming subsidies exist for a reason and its not so people can make money its about what that business produces beyond the monetary gain.

I don't know, but I'd imagine that the percentage of the UK's farming industry that relies on a seasonal workforce is quite low. (one that's larger than a handful of under 25's anyway)

Just remember though... there's always Colorado...*


*Providing you can get a green card - good luck with that. Canada might be easier.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The Independent article he linked to was about about Boston, Lincolshire.

Ohh didn't bother clicking the article.

Around my area the farmers are roughly 80/90% English. (Know a couple farmers from Zimbabwe who moved when the **** hit the fan).

Only the big franchise farms use east European Labour.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

See people are doing the yearly 8 people have more money than half the worlds population put together thing.

Not sure what can really be changed?

All talk no viable alternative.