A Political Thread

[j'nuh]

See people are doing the yearly 8 people have more money than half the worlds population put together thing.

Not sure what can really be changed?

All talk no viable alternative.

Not being able to offer an alternative doesn't mean it isn't helpful to moan about the way things are. The issue isn't that we don't know how to do things differently, it's that the super-rich are able to rig the political game to their own advantages through donations and media control. We have no means of enacting our own ideas because we don't have the influence in government, nationally or globally, to achieve anything. The way to change this is to moan louder and make people realise how much they are being shafted.

The reason inequality and globalisation has gone hand-in-hand is that we have been unable to enact policy in the interests of workers on a global level. Therefore, we need to cooperate more on a global level. Workers unions should cross country borders. Conventions should be held and global laws created on tax affairs (namely in order to shut down tax havens).

 

[ncurd]

Listening to the Speech:

So far

"Dear Europe please don't screw us over".

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Surpised not more mentioned about the speech on here really.

- - - Updated - - -

At least the £ went up.

 

[ncurd]

eh.

May essentially wants the best possible deal for Britain with full control of our trade with other nations, laws (in terms of our courts being final arbiters) and immigrations.
That means pulling out of everything and renegotiating praying the EU doesn't play silly buggers too much. Its not in their best interest to make no deal but equally not in their best interest to let us have everything we want.
It was nothing 'surprising' just validation that what was said by the remain was utterly true in terms of freedom of movement and the single market (I was listening to others on leave earlier say we could have better during the campaign). Its good the government is being clear what they want though.

The problem I have is timing in 2.25 years she wants the full deal in place with phased transition an admirable and the transition part is sensible goal. however she also admitted in the same speech they've yet to agree all migrants currently living across the EU including Britain can not be agreed because some EU nations are using them as a bargaining chip. Considering that simple point has yet to be agreed after 5-6 months since the vote what hope do we have for all the far more complex stuff in 2 years...

Honestly its all about as good as expected she's left the threat to go nuclear (WTO rules). I think the pounds recovery today (to just above what it was before the weekend) shows the markets are pretty much stable from the original Brexit vote so I doubt anything more for the next 2 years on this front will destabilise it unless horrible details emerge. I think were in a holding pattern over that time now.

Its obvious why she wants it done in 2 years though as 2020 requires an election and if we're not through article 50 by then with a sensible deal in place she'll struggle to cling to power probably from both sides of the debate in terms of votes.

the platitudes about looking out to the world and being a global trading hub were nonsense though we already are the second and I'm not convinced that majority voting to leave were doing anything other than being insular and inward looking.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Be interesting to see how Labour goes in the parliament vote.

Lib Dems sudden surge in the by-elections will be very worrying for them esp considering the win I. Sunderland an are that voted leave, voted for the lib Dems who are 100% Remain.

 

[ncurd]

TBH I suspect most that is regaining support after the disasterous 2015 election and people realising that by protesting against the Lib Dems entering a coalition with the Tories they actually opened the gates to a fully Tory goverment. I mean even the Richmond consituentcy whilst a great win the Lib Dems support in that area was hardly unprecendented looking at history.

Stoke-On-Trent central will be intesresting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoke-on-Trent_Central_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
Most people voted UKIP/Tory in the last election assuming some waning of support for UKIP to Tory and some resurgence in the Lib Dems vote to 2010 levels. Could be a three way fight.

From Lib Dem perspective though its really about rebuilding support to be a proper third/fourth party again (I don't think the SNP are going anywhere now).

 

[ncurd]

Sorry one minor point from May's speech which has also been glossed over. All current European laws and right will be exactly the same in Britain after we leave with no changes.
So people who voted leave so we could decide our own laws whilst not being able to name one law they didn't like still have to abide by those laws.


Of course it does give parliament the opportunity to add, amend and drop those laws in the future as opposed to the European parliament.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Not being able to offer an alternative doesn't mean it isn't helpful to moan about the way things are. The issue isn't that we don't know how to do things differently, it's that the super-rich are able to rig the political game to their own advantages through donations and media control. We have no means of enacting our own ideas because we don't have the influence in government, nationally or globally, to achieve anything. The way to change this is to moan louder and make people realise how much they are being shafted.

The reason inequality and globalisation has gone hand-in-hand is that we have been unable to enact policy in the interests of workers on a global level. Therefore, we need to cooperate more on a global level. Workers unions should cross country borders. Conventions should be held and global laws created on tax affairs (namely in order to shut down tax havens).

Bingo !
Most excellent post Sir.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Anyone watching the inauguration?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Recording it in case anyone brought a Cheytac to DC.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Nothing like a presidential inauguration to remind you how religious America still is.

 

[ncurd]

The violence in the protests makes me want to thump my head against the wall. It's not helping the liberal fascist nonsense that is being bandied about.

 

[munstermuffin]

Now I'm no expert in politics but all these protesters against Trump. Aren't they complete hypocrites in a sense.
They want a system that is all about equality democracy and fairness etc. But are they protesting against a man who was fairly elected regardless of what anyone thinks.

Like what drives me nuts is half these hippies probably never even voted and are professional protesters. Ot reminds me here of Anti Austerity Alliance. And I don't agree with half charges government introduce in Ireland like water charges and LPT etc BUT these guys expect that anyone who's lazy and wont work should still be rewarded as much as a person bursting their balls.
Now I'm in a dream job but at times its tough and it really does my nut in to see these social pros out having time of their life at the working mans expense. I also feel sorry for genuine people out of work who'd love a job as they get washed up in fact it's hard to seperate genuine from idiots

 

[Peat]

Never the idea that its hypocritical/whatever to continue protesting/campaigning after a democratic vote. Democratic votes tell you who gets the power, not what you have to think of those who have it. And no, there's nothing hypocritical about wanting democracy and protesting against someone who you believe will misuse the power give to them by democracy.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

C yeh but no need for Violence.

Too much movies etc.

Why can't we have just a peaceful protest that doesn't fuk up others etc.

 

[profitius]

Its a dark day for the globalists, lefties and elites, great day for the people!

 

[bazwaz]

...i was watching the gunnery going off at the inaugeration and could'nt help thinking what terribly bad shots those Americans are...

 

[Peat]

Its a dark day for the globalists, lefties and elites, great day for the people!

As long as they're not an ethnic minority, homosexual, in a trade reliant on global trade, reliant on subsidised medical care, or just at risk from global warming.

That is quite a lot of people though...

 

[munstermuffin]

C yeh but no need for Violence.

Too much movies etc.

Why can't we have just a peaceful protest that doesn't fuk up others etc.

This is my point. If there an issue protest peacefully. BUT Peat your missing my point half those protestors have no issue with Trump or couldn't name 1 of his policies. They justbwant to be in a conflict regardless of issue.

If you think back to troubles in Northern Ireland it was same issue. On both side alot couldn't tell you what it even over yet will still fight.
And it's fine saying Trump will misuse power but fact is its innocent until proven guilty and he hasn't ****ed up yet

 

[j'nuh]

A lot of the problem is to do with the internet and social media. Online disinhibition means people are talking to each other on the internet without the respect that people generally give one another in person, and those attitudes are seeping into politics and the media. It's not a new phenomenon, but the explosion in social media over the last 10 years means it's more widespread than ever before.

Now I'm no expert in politics but all these protesters against Trump. Aren't they complete hypocrites in a sense.
They want a system that is all about equality democracy and fairness etc. But are they protesting against a man who was fairly elected regardless of what anyone thinks.

Politics doesn't begin and end on polling day. They aren't protesting Trump being elected, they are protesting what Trump represents.

Like what drives me nuts is half these hippies probably never even voted and are professional protesters. Ot reminds me here of Anti Austerity Alliance. And I don't agree with half charges government introduce in Ireland like water charges and LPT etc BUT these guys expect that anyone who's lazy and wont work should still be rewarded as much as a person bursting their balls.
Now I'm in a dream job but at times its tough and it really does my nut in to see these social pros out having time of their life at the working mans expense. I also feel sorry for genuine people out of work who'd love a job as they get washed up in fact it's hard to seperate genuine from idiots

How are you able to tell that most of the protesters are unemployed? Please can you back up that assertion with some evidence? To my knowledge, they are mostly students and people protesting on days off work, or on the weekend.

This is my point. If there an issue protest peacefully. BUT Peat your missing my point half those protestors have no issue with Trump or couldn't name 1 of his policies. They justbwant to be in a conflict regardless of issue.

If you think back to troubles in Northern Ireland it was same issue. On both side alot couldn't tell you what it even over yet will still fight.
And it's fine saying Trump will misuse power but fact is its innocent until proven guilty and he hasn't ****ed up yet

Most people are though. It's fairly disingenuous to try and paint all leftists and protesters with the brush of the violent few.