A Political Thread

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Thought he was wanting the other countries to start pulling their weights.

Think only 4 other countries meet the targets.

 

[McTallshort]

Trump thinks America should pull out of NATO

If I was American I would probably agree given I think it's about 80% of NATO's budget comes from them. And other member's such as Germany want to reduce their contribution further. Definitely a populist ideal and a vote winner. Let's see if it comes to anything

 

[McTallshort]

Thought he was wanting the other countries to start pulling their weights.

Think only 4 other countries meet the targets.

Which they should to be honest. America has been carrying NATO since the 90's

 

[ncurd]

I can't be arsed to look it up what countries contributions to NATO and their GDP? It's the only way to look at it as America will always be the largest contributer.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I was listening to Five live on the way home from work and they were speaking with Anthony Baxter who has made a few documentaries on Trump. Basically saying how he promised 6000 jobs (sound familiar?) when he built the Golf course in Scotland when in reality it has only created 95. Also his disgraceful treatment of a Scottish family, including a 92 year old lady , where their water supply was cut off when the golf course was built. Trump and his company promised to correct this, but still haven't, which means the 92 year old lady has to collect water from the nearest stream with a wheel barrow. So what he says is not what he delivers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37562780

I would be interested to see this documentary.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd be very surprised if the contribution they are obliged to isn't a percentage of their GDP.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I can't be arsed to look it up what countries contributions to NATO and their GDP? It's the only way to look at it as America will always be the largest contributer.

Think Greece, Poland, UK and maybe Holland are the only ones hitting their targets US makes up the rest for everyone else.

 

[McTallshort]

Think Greece, Poland, UK and maybe Holland are the only ones hitting their targets US makes up the rest for everyone else.

Denmark are there or there about but the likes of France and Germany haven't bothered for years.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Don't know whether anyone's posted this one here, but he's nailed what (some of us) on here, have been saying for a while.

I don't normally watch him, but might in the future.

 

[ncurd]

Yup watched it this morning was thinking about sharing it myself. I should point out he's propper lefty and has a Corbyn is the messiah (as in he never critises him) so just be prepared for that if you watch the video's.

My issue is he's having the arguement to the left and it's true we have to get better at having a discourse. However as I pointed out the right have been equally if not more dismissive of the left viewpoint.
It's both sides unwillingness to communicate that has to politics being so entrenched and bitter not just the left.

 

[ratsapprentice]

As someone who regards myself as an "unaffiliated" centrist, I definitely feel the left has been worse than the right in the last couple of years.

 

[ncurd]

As someone who regards myself as an "unaffiliated" centrist, I definitely feel the left has been worse than the right in the last couple of years.

Take a look at the highest rated comments (and usually lowest rated) on the BBC and ask who's yelling the loudest....

Have to admit some people on the left really need shooting, there's one guy I know who's ****** of all centrists due to his extreme attacks. But one guy on the right is even more intolerable and annoyed everyone.

There is a level of as being a heterosexual white male in a heterosexual marriage with a white heterosexual female that somehow we are not pushing some kind of social agenda or for the side. But those people are ******s....riles my wife who has more traditionalist values up something rotten. However when I get called the looney left (when I consider myself left of center), not knowing what the real world is like, never done a real days work, brainwashed by university, all the left are facists.....sorry that's exactly the same stuff as calling everyone on the right bigots and racists (just those words aren't as incendiary because how do you actually call the left deplorable things? Maybe facists but still....).

I think actually the problem is really vocal people on both sides are yelling far louder than the moderates. Like I say could be one of viewpoint more.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I would say on social media it is def more left heavy.

Media is still right heavy along with the comments.

But I would say the neutrals are more likely now to get bothered by people on social media than on things likes News comments mainly becuase it is easier to avoid the latter.

I have seen more friends getting grief from a SJW on things like FB and Twitter than anyone else. Not saying it doesn't happen but I think it is easier for a SJW to take a Facebook post out of context than the right.

Both are very vocal just different outlets and visiability and I would say the left tends to be more direct.

It is also 10000000x more embrassing and annoying someone calling you out on FB about something that was totally taken out of context just so someone can take a higher moral ground, than some anonymous troll on the bottom of the news comments.

 

[ncurd]

Thats a good point I think. There is some perceptual problems in that young people are way more liberal than their elders. So social media in turn skews that a fair bit. I should note that I don't think young people go more right over time I think people stay where they are it's just the next generation are even more left. I'm more liberal than my parents who in turn are more liberal than theirs. People look at current view and look at the younger generation and go well when their my age theyll move my way. Not actually considering how much their views changed.

The other side of this is maybe social media has given a better voice to the left rather than being drowned out by the media (liberal left wing media is one of the biggest fallacies of argument of the right, I really wonder who they are referring to other than The Guardian).

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I think alt left and alt right are equally awful. It depends on who you interact with. I'm friends with more people on the left and i'd be happy to kill a bunch of them (especially simce they are really ****** trump won yet they didn't vote for hillary.)
The left is also more likely to lecture while the right wil just call you an american hater, pussy, or tell you to go back to where you came from. They appear as trolls which are easier to dismiss while the left is more relentless. If you call the left out on their bull**** they will throw a tantrum while the right will just repeat themselves.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The left is also more likely to lecture while the right wil just call you an american hater, pussy, or tell you to go back to where you came from. They appear as trolls which are easier to dismiss while the left is more relentless. If you call the left out on their bull**** they will throw a tantrum while the right will just repeat themselves.

Yeh pretty much this.

It's easier to ignore someone calling you names than someone trying to make you feel morally wrong about something you say or don't say at times, And the left tends to do the latter more often than not when they get vocal.

You tend to feel you have to defend yourself more against that sort of comment than just someone calling you a cuckold or something.

Like if you accidentally put coloured instead of black you can expect a couple of posts saying actually you should say black. It's like at least pm me that kind of **** instead of calling me out esp when they wasn't anything in it. It might not seem much to them but it can make you feel like WTF.

 

[McTallshort]

Im With Ncurd on this, as an ex squaddie most of my social media contacts tend to be from a right of centre point of view and most of my civvi FB friends tend to be more right than left.

But looking at the comments section on BBC articles etc you have to say the strongest view point is more right than left and it can be quite venomous at times. I've even been on the Guardian website and again comment sections on there tend to be hijacked.

Since the 80's the population of the UK is more right of centre than left meaning that social media is more that way too, the newspaper media is far more right than left but the TV media is more left of centre than right so it does kind of balance out.....

 

[ncurd]

Getting a PM is just as bad....we've had that discussion.

I agree on the name calling thing it's easy to dismiss a right wing troll as what he's saying is demonstrably wrong (I say this as the US elects one as President.....I still despair that Clinton couldn't get enough people out to vote for her to beat him). However a lefty with moral outrage far harder...they tend need perspective more. Is this a fight worth fighting? Are you telling people how to think rather than explaining how you think? Does this particular injustice actually matter?

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

cause a PM doesn't help them score points with their friends... they are more interested in the signal their actions send to others than the actual issues
you also can't have friends join you and gang up on a person when it is a PM

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I guess that the comment about your social circle is true.

A lot of my friends tend to be mostly upper middle class Uni friends, a fair amount of which went on a gap year to India or somewhere and did charity work there whilst also partying.