A Political Thread

[McTallshort]

The first question your making my opinion for me I don't understand why people find it offensive. However FIFA band political symbol because people do and they don't have to make a case by case judgement on them blanket ban works best.

On the seoncd ummm yes I do whether nukes saved lives (and either way were talking military lives over civilian lives and there is a point there) it is massively contended by historical scholar's of which there is no one definitive answer. I'd struggle to ever justify massive civilian casulties of that scale to save military lives. I know why some do but I don't.

At the time in the contents of the war it wasnt civilain lives v military lives it was Japanese lives against American ones. WW2 was a total war in respect the nations involved were totally geared up for one objective which was victory. The Japanese had shown a fanatical mindset in its conduct of the war and there was little sympthy for its population from everyone else. The Americans were predicting casulties in excess of 250k for an invasion of the homelands after 6 years of war any method to end it was welcome. most historcal scholers who debate it have never faced a choice like that: risk lossing 250k of my own country man or drop two bombs that will cause roughly the same damage as large conventional bombing raid.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Trying to ban a countries flag would be rather problematic for religious symbols not just for Israel. How many countries flags are Christian symbols (England, Scotlands and Nother Irelands are, the British flag is a cimbination)? How man contain Islamic? I think a few contain Bhuddist....

I just checked the latest England soccerball shirt, no sign of a flag of St George anywhere. The shirt that Google images threw up has the logo of their national football association and the national flag. Restricting shirts to a national association logo that meets FIFA criteria would allow them to be consistent in their application of their own rules. Similarly they should ban manufacturer logos - they're clearly commercial so allowing them is hypocritical, but then that would be a massive conflict of interests for FIFA.

Pragmatic answer - everyone gets to score brownie points by having a pop a FIFA and the players / game gets publicity because they come up with an alternative way to show their respect (clearly sitting down for the anthem wouldn't be appropriate).

- - - Updated - - -

I have heard some stories about the BRL that don't put it in a nice light either.

If you mean RBL, I suspect you're right. I only know a few bits from people who were involved in running the (now closed) local RBL. They made them sound like an even more self-serving version of the RFU.

- - - Updated - - -

The poppy has been used since 1921to commemorate military soldiers, alive or dead. I did read an article that because it has been used and sold by the British Legion who use the money to help existing British Army soldiers, injured or not.

I wondered this - the RBL seem rather vague about the distinction between themselves as a body and the Haig Fund. A quick Google didn't throw up a conclusive answer.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Like I said Tigs nearly 100% justifiable, I don't think our reasons for kicking off in the first place were alturistic but overall the massive net win of defeating the Axis powers was fundamentality good for humanity. Whilst the treatment of PoW's was sickening I don't think justifies attacking a civilian population with nukes.
Overall though go WW2!
.

Ermm I wasn't suggesting that at all.

 

[McTallshort]

Why would Irish people be upset about something the British army did after 1945? 26 unarmed civilians marching against internment in Derry might have something to do with it. Collusion between the British army and loyalist murder gangs. I could go on, but I think we can accept it was an idiotic statement. There's quite understandable reasons guys like James McClean will never wear a poppy. He grew up in the bogside.
If it was me I'd be happy to honor the British war dead of WW1 and WW2. I'd wear a poppy and put the ugliness above to the side because it's really not what the spirit of the poppy is meant to represent. At the same time, there is this level of bullying which has come to surround anyone who steps even slightly out of line with regards to the poppy. It should be a choice to wear it.

Whats that got to do with the irish republic whos own security forces mounted anti terriost operations against PIRA?

 

[McTallshort]

The poppy has been used since 1921to commemorate military soldiers, alive or dead. I did read an article that because it has been used and sold by the British Legion who use the money to help existing British Army soldiers, injured or not.

I can understand why it is controversial in Ireland when you consider what the British Army did during the Troubles.

In Northern Ireland perhaps but not the irish republic whos govement inturned without trial 100s of suspected IRA members during the second world war

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

oh god end well this will not...

 

[ncurd]

oh god end well this will not...

I blame you, you asked the question.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Whats that got to do with the irish republic whos own security forces mounted anti terriost operations against PIRA?

Come on, you're better than that.

 

[Groundhog]

Jesus I'm outta here. I mentioned 26 dead unarmed civilians, not the I.R.A. Also unrelated, but is anyone else having the problem on PC where if they try and quote someone they can't use spaces?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I blame you, you asked the question.

But I didn't expect a question about FIFA and the poppies to turn into a Troubles thing.

Well not that quickly at least.

I am innocent.

 

[McTallshort]

Come on, you're better than that.

So they didn't then? PIRA hardly had mass support in the republic despite what a few misty eyed people on here might think. Since the WW2 the official IRA and later PIRA were considered an unwanted presence in the republic and it was with the help of the Gardi that British security forces were so successful in choking PIRA's criminal fund raising. Or did you think they turned a blind to anyone saying captain moonlight?

 

[ncurd]

But I didn't expect a question about FIFA and the poppies to turn into a Troubles thing.

Well not that quickly at least.

I am innocent.

TBF we narrowly avoided Godwin's Law and we were talking about WW2 only by not mentioning his name though.

 

[Groundhog]

Tallshort we were discussing atrocities committed against innocent republican civilians who were unarmed and did not deserve to be shot because they marched peacefully for a cause, not actual I.R.A members. Please cop on. Stop making idiotic arguments about the I.R.A that no one else made.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So what do people think about Asda using dirty crates for home delivery .........



(Sums up why FIFA stance is prob for the best).

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Makes no difference to the dirty own brand food they supply, so have at it.

 

[McTallshort]

Tallshort we were discussing atrocities committed against innocent republican civilians who were unarmed and did not deserve to be shot because they marched peacefully for a cause, not actual I.R.A members. Please cop on. Stop making idiotic arguments about the I.R.A that no one else made.

When? After 1945 when did the British every carry out atrocious against innocent republican civilians?

 

[Gavin]

So what do people think about Asda using dirty crates for home delivery .........



(Sums up why FIFA stance is prob for the best).

I heard the crates are now dirty because Asda cannot hire foreigners to clean the crates because of Brexit, as they are all being chucked out, and British people think they are too good to do the job.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

When? After 1945 when did the British every carry out atrocious against innocent republican civilians?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I heard the crates are now dirty because Asda cannot hire foreigners to clean the crates because of Brexit, as they are all being chucked out, and British people think they are too good to do the job.

Get out of your Canterbury bubble man....

 

[McTallshort]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)

Sure londonderry is in Northern Ireland but my Geography isn't always great.....no checked it, it's definitely not in the republic.