A Political Thread

[RedruthRFC]

Jesus I'm outta here. I mentioned 26 dead unarmed civilians, not the I.R.A. Also unrelated, but is anyone else having the problem on PC where if they try and quote someone they can't use spaces?

Metoo. Copy and pasting a space from what you're quoting (only once) solves the problem somehow.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The comments things are nothing new unfortunately.

I mean have seen how quickly a YouTube comments section can descend to ****.

The internet brings out the worse in fair amount of people IMO. Hence why I don't look at the comment sections of News sections generally. (Same goes with FB).

 

[Car]

But I agree with FIFA being idiots once again in this issue.

Players aren't allowed to wear t-shirts with get well soon messages or pictures of their newborn children any more, so it's consistent for once.

 

[McTallshort]

The public vote Brexit

The elite get their legal teams and try to stop it.

Democracy in action

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The public vote Brexit

The elite get their legal teams and try to stop it.

Democracy in action

The public vote their politicians into power.

The politicians decide the public should vote on an issue the majority of them do not understand.

Democracy gone too far?

I'm totally against referenda in general, we'll likely have one in Ireland soon to legalise abortion and the idea that an 80 year old man's vote carriers the same weight as a 25 year old girl's makes me sick considering the outcome of the vote only affects one of them.

 

[ncurd]

The public vote Brexit

The elite get their legal teams and try to stop it.

Democracy in action

If the government weren't fighting it would you even question the fact that parliament had to vote to invoke article 50.

Anyway after reading about it further this is an extremely good thing because of the wider implications if it was found on the government's side. The government can not take away your rights (in this case as a European Citizen as article 50 will do in two years) without legislation passing parliament. Are you not happy that government can't just flippantly decide which rights you have on any given day?

 

[McTallshort]

The public vote their politicians into power.

The politicians decide the public should vote on an issue the majority of them do not understand.

Democracy gone too far?

I'm totally against referenda in general, we'll likely have one in Ireland soon to legalise abortion and the idea that an 80 year old man's vote carriers the same weight as a 25 year old girl's makes me sick considering the outcome of the vote only affects one of them.

So only certain people should be able to vote on certain things? and I disagree with the whole "they didn't understand" argument, the EU has shown itself to be bloated and corrupt and people will only take so much of that but that's an argument for 6 months ago. Its happened the die has been cast we need to just get on with it and stop all these stupid delaying tactics.


Regards abortion in Ireland, until that medieval, power crazy, sinister organisation called the Catholic Church is told to stay the **** out of Irish internal matters there will always be problems like this, I believe its the same in Northern Ireland with the equally sinister Proddy church having too much say in the lives of ordinary people.

I would rather too much democracy than a country were politics is influenced by some religious mumbo jumbo.

 

[ncurd]

Farage is now calling for a general election that's even worse for delaying than having to go through parliament.

The reality is they should just be getting on with things and actually understanding how that bloody process goes about in law. This appeal by the goverment is just a complete waste of time as well and has nothing to do with them wanting to push through and get things done. It's all about who has the power to make these decisions.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

But it's would def be his best chance at getting seats in Parliment.

 

[ncurd]

It's also the best chance for the Lib Dems to regain a ton of seats too.

Lots of the 48% feel that talks of a hard Brexit are completely ignoring what they had to say. The Lib Dems are the only party trying to talk to those people, I imagine it's how a lot of people felt about UKIP for some time.

Here's the ultimate contituional problem of a General Election, it's the ultimate way apart from a second referendum a referendum. If you elect an MP who unequiviqually say he will block legisation to leave the EU (as I will try to do) they has every right to ignore the referendum result.

Simply put whilst I will support that mess to happen I'm not actually insane enough to think it's the sensible thing for the goverment to do if they intend to leave the EU.

 

[j'nuh]

The public vote Brexit

The elite get their legal teams and try to stop it.

Democracy in action

What are you talking about? We live in a Parliamentary democracy. It would set a terrible constitutional precedence that the leader of the UK could enact an important political decision without Parliamentary approval. First it's article 50. Next it's e.g. new powers for GCHQ to snoop in the lives of private e-mails, which May appears to be a fan of.

For those who support Brexit, they should be for this decision. 1 - It was only a few months ago they were banging on about Parliamentary sovereignty. 2 - A Parliament which can contest decisions repeals the worst in decision-making. If you want a success out of Brexit, Parliament will need the ability to contest decisions.

 

[ncurd]

1 - It was only a few months ago they were banging on about Parliamentary sovereignty

It was also IMO one of few decent point they had, I disagree with the conclusion that the EU parliament was bad and undemocratic. But Britain deciding it's own laws in its own courts I can get slightly behind that.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

So only certain people should be able to vote on certain things? and I disagree with the whole "they didn't understand" argument, the EU has shown itself to be bloated and corrupt and people will only take so much of that but that's an argument for 6 months ago. Its happened the die has been cast we need to just get on with it and stop all these stupid delaying tactics.


Regards abortion in Ireland, until that medieval, power crazy, sinister organisation called the Catholic Church is told to stay the **** out of Irish internal matters there will always be problems like this, I believe its the same in Northern Ireland with the equally sinister Proddy church having too much say in the lives of ordinary people.

I would rather too much democracy than a country were politics is influenced by some religious mumbo jumbo.

No, people shouldn't have to vote on a decision that can be made by the members of parliament thay had previously voted into power. Unfortunately over here any constitutional change requires a referendum so our government is forced to leave the legality of abortion into the hands of the public, many of whom are still influenced by the aforementioned organisation that crippled this nation for its first half century of sovereignty thanks to Eamon de Valera's ego being bigger than his love of Ireland. I can guarantee you that the high majority of voters against abortion can never get pregnant again in their lives, how is it fair that they have a say in something that won't affect them in any way?

As for not understanding, I think the amount of people who voted leave to 'teach them a lesson' shows that while many people did not understand the implications of their vote.

As for the last paragraph, I detest both.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/fifa-punish-ireland-over/101650

Enforced retrospectively after a British MP challenged them. Pathetic organisation, I regret defending them.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/fifa-punish-ireland-over/101650

Enforced retrospectively after a British MP challenged them. Pathetic organisation, I regret defending them.

What did you expect TBH.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

What did you expect TBH.

I don't know, that emblem was well advertised prior to the game and they did nothing though. I don't mind the principle but the enforcement here isn't right.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't know, that emblem was well advertised prior to the game and they did nothing though. I don't mind the principle but the enforcement here isn't right.

I agree TBH FIFA is a shambles.

I don't agree of sanctioning of Ireland as you say FIFA would of known about it. They needed to say sorry we made a mistake with that won't happen again or say that certain times it is acceptable which will need clarification.

 

[RedruthRFC]

What was I saying about applying the rules consistently? The article is rather unclear - does 'allowed' mean "gave permission to" or "didn't sanction"? Either way, it means that either they don't have a clear view of their own rules or that they're incapable of enforcing them.

 

[j'nuh]

It was also IMO one of few decent point they had, I disagree with the conclusion that the EU parliament was bad and undemocratic. But Britain deciding it's own laws in its own courts I can get slightly behind that.

I'm torn on this issue. I think human history has shown that progress comes from lawmaking being made at higher and higher levels. I don't think we would have made the progress we have had, as a species, had lawmaking remained in the hands of village chieftans, or had we never moved past city-states for instance.

To be more specific, globalisation has brought the world closer together and there are problems inherent to a societal structure where individuals and companies can cross borders, but laws cannot. This is great for rich people and multinationals who can easily do this, but less so for everyone else. Case in point: tax competition is driving down the tax coffers of countries to the benefit solely of the richest, because the richest can exploit movement around the world for tax reasons way more than poor people can. Same with businesses: multinationals can hire lawyers and accountants to help in relocating to a new country to benefit from preferential laws and tax rates, where smaller companies haven't the chance. I think a globalised world needs some central decision-making to avoid the race to the bottom caused by countries competing against one another. Another case in point: fishing. Much was made of Britain being able to rebuild its fishing industry post-Brexit, but if every country left the EU, it would be a disaster for the already-plummeting levels of fish in the sea.

On the other hand, I think enlightened ideas need to take root in progressive countries willing to experiment with their laws and without that sovereignty, you lose the ability to test this. For instance, gay marriage has As a result, I do see the perks of national sovereignty. But I think the balance between national sovereignty and reform of the governing structure to meet the 21st Century demands is far too much in favour of the former.

 

[Mhumhain]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)

Just what I was thinking:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildford_pub_bombings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_pub_bombings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Park_and_Regent's_Park_bombings

Good job we don't all play the victim for things that happened before we were born to people we didn't know.

ya I'll tell a worse story a guy hated all over Germany a war criminal the butcher Harris who would have been hung if ye had lost the war. Half a million German men women and children butchered by his genocide. they are as equally victims as the people killed in Auschwitz and Belsen.
and no ye didn't go to war to save the Jews or for freedom or any of that crap. britain went to war for imperial balance of power, because in the same year 1939 britain's Jackboot was on the throat of countless millions of people the world over who had no vote voice or rights.