A Political Thread

[ncurd]

The group commissioned a report by an expert in rehabilitation medicine, Prof Mike Barnes, which found good evidence that medical cannabis helps alleviate the symptoms of:
chronic pain (including neuropathic pain)
spasticity (often associated with Multiple Sclerosis)
nausea and vomiting, particularly in the context of chemotherapy
anxiety

And there was moderate evidence that it could help with:
sleep disorders
poor appetite
fibromyalgia
post-traumatic stress disorder
Parkinson's symptoms

And that sums up the argument, legalisation will also stop it being a gateway drug as well (although I suspect something else will take its place).

I've never smoked it BTW I hate the smell.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yup, weed being illegal is just insane in this day and age.

 

[Which Tyler]

The group commissioned a report by an expert in rehabilitation medicine, Prof Mike Barnes, which found good evidence that medical cannabis helps alleviate the symptoms of:
chronic pain (including neuropathic pain)
spasticity (often associated with Multiple Sclerosis)
nausea and vomiting, particularly in the context of chemotherapy
anxiety

And there was moderate evidence that it could help with:
sleep disorders
poor appetite
fibromyalgia
post-traumatic stress disorder
Parkinson's symptoms

And that sums up the argument, legalisation will also stop it being a gateway drug as well (although I suspect something else will take its place).

I've never smoked it BTW I hate the smell.

And that's with a ban in place on researching the beneficial effects in the USA (I think UK as well, but don't quote me on that).
Never made any sense whatsoever that it was illegal to research beneficial effects of marijuana, or try to find more beneficial forms; but heroine? feel free.

The gateway drug argument always failed for me anyway - and as evidence, I provide you with everyone who's been to University in the last 60 years, and not become addicted to hard drugs.

 

[ncurd]

The gateway drug argument always failed for me anyway - and as evidence, I provide you with everyone who's been to University in the last 60 years, and not become addicted to hard drugs.

Well not everyone at University experimented with drugs although I'll admit that list is rather low.

Gateway drug is more to do with the relationship with the dealer of the drugs, I know very few people who've acquired cannabis through a 3rd party who were not into harder stuff as well. The dealer pushes you into it whilst you buy something innocuous. Most people trying it at Uni aren't the ones acquiring it.

Still that part of the argument for legalisation it stops people acquiring it through less reputable means and pushed into stuff that does serious damage.

 

[Which Tyler]

OK - 99% of graduates then - better?

Fair point on the users not necessarily being those dealing with the dealers - though I'd still suggest there's a fair proportion who do.
Personally I'm a fan of legalising and controlling the quality and source (and taxation) anyway in general terms (not just weed); though it's far from an open and shut case - but opening up for medical use and research is an absolute no brainer.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Pa just made it legal for people like me with one of 19 illnesses to get medical cannabis the problem is my doctor hasn't enrolled in the program
Just better to make it legal and hurt the gangs in the wallet

 

[j'nuh]

I'll just drop this here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...idn-t-like-the-conclusions-nick-a6988616.html

 

[McTallshort]

Anyone who thinks weed is harmless has never met a regular user of the stuff. It makes people depressed, moody and boring. Many years ago i used to work for a multi drop courier firm as a driver and everyone apart from me was on the stuff. it was impossible to judge anyones mood and they all spent their money on getting stoned. Most had mental health problems and had bad family lives. Unless your from the west indies you cannot handle it and leave well alone.

 

[ratsapprentice]

That's one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen.

 

[McTallshort]

I speak as i find

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Confirmation bias.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I speak as i find

I speak as I find, too; and say that some people like to lay about and smoke weed all day if they can.
Generally though, they're the sort of people who like to lay about all day anyway.

It's much the same as alcohol - some people are mouthy, lairy ***** when they've had a few... generally I find that those people are also lairy ***** when they're sober too.
Or alcoholics - that doesn't mean that you are a lairy alcoholic when you have a beverage or two, does it, Tallshort?

It also shouldn't be surprising to you that the people who were depressed, moody and boring had poor family lives (or visa-versa) - there tends to be a degree of cause and effect there.

 

[Thingimubob]

I speak as I find, too; and say that some people like to lay about and smoke weed all day if they can.
Generally though, they're the sort of people who like to lay about all day anyway.

It's much the same as alcohol - some people are mouthy, lairy ***** when they've had a few... generally I find that those people are also lairy ***** when they're sober too.
Or alcoholics - that doesn't mean that you are a lairy alcoholic when you have a beverage or two, does it, Tallshort?

It also shouldn't be surprising to you that the people who were depressed, moody and boring had poor family lives (or visa-versa) - there tends to be a degree of cause and effect there.

 

[McTallshort]

I speak as I find, too; and say that some people like to lay about and smoke weed all day if they can.
Generally though, they're the sort of people who like to lay about all day anyway.

It's much the same as alcohol - some people are mouthy, lairy ***** when they've had a few... generally I find that those people are also lairy ***** when they're sober too.
Or alcoholics - that doesn't mean that you are a lairy alcoholic when you have a beverage or two, does it, Tallshort?

It also shouldn't be surprising to you that the people who were depressed, moody and boring had poor family lives (or visa-versa) - there tends to be a degree of cause and effect there.

Sorry i dont remember saying booze was harmless and weed was evil but at least booze is regulated in terms of the stuff that goes into making it.

My experiance and i dont care frankly if you agree is that regular users of weed fall into the depressed moody bracket. Ive seen some very promising people fall foul of weed and in particular the stuff that started arriving in the early 2000's. Its the one thing as a parent i am truly worried about my kids getting into. You might think thats ignorant i see at being practical.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Sorry i dont remember saying booze was harmless and weed was evil but at least booze is regulated in terms of the stuff that goes into making it.

My experiance and i dont care frankly if you agree is that regular users of weed fall into the depressed moody bracket. Ive seen some very promising people fall foul of weed and in particular the stuff that started arriving in the early 2000's. Its the one thing as a parent i am truly worried about my kids getting into. You might think thats ignorant i see at being practical.

You should be happy about weed being welcomed into the legal bracket then - seeing as it will be regulated far more heavily than it is now.

Many people who use weed are depressed and "moody" - but as I say, there's cause and effect there.

Many people suffer from depression - some people like to do deadlifts to help with it, some smoke draw.... other drink and some even cut themselves.
You don't look at people who cut themselves and say... "see, cutting yourself makes you moody and depressed". It's clearly the other way around - so I don't see why you would make that assumption about drugs.

I don't say this as some sort of left-wing, hipster, trustafarian (etc., etc....) hippie character - I'm a fairly straight down the line centralist who doesn't drink too much and haven't smoked draw in a good 5+ years.

I'm of the generation that has had access to strong as **** weed since my early teens - I know all too well what effect it has on people. But I don't see it as being convincingly causative of the symptoms you describe.

In fact I'd say that one of the primary problems with weed's illegality is that it forces millions of people to sit inside watching **** tv because they can't go out to enjoy their drug of choice.

 

[j'nuh]

Let us remind ourselves what we are talking about. There are two classification systems for drugs in the UK. Restricted drugs fall under three classes, Class A being the most harshly punished and Class C the least. Cannabis is Class B. These drugs are also classified through Schedules, which determine whether restricted drugs have medicinal value and who can prescribe it if so. Cannabis is Schedule 1, which means it is deemed to have no medical value and cannot be prescribed by doctors.

What is being proposed is that the Schedule is changed, so that doctors can prescribe cannabis. That won't make it legal for recreational use: it will still be a Class B drug.

This in mind, I cannot comprehend how anyone can be against this. If doctors feel that prescribing cannabis is what is best for their patient, they should have the right to do so. That politicians - who are not medically trained - ignore medical professionals on the matter of what is and isn't of value for doctors to prescribe patients is ludicrous.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Aye.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

weed doesn't make people depressed, depressed people turn to weed like they do alcohol

my life would honestly suck without weed, not depression, but with crohn's it is about 100000x better than vicodin in allowing me to live a normal life

 

[Sker]

I'd much rather see my kids turn to weed than to booze tbh. Living in SA with one of the highest death tolls related to drunk driving...

And I don't think a drug like weed (which I have smoked before, irregularly) can change who you inherently are as a person. Sure I see how it can be abused as a coping mechanism but even then isn't it the lesser of other evils like alcohol, meth or even food?

Someone who claims to be an 'emotional' eater who chows sweets and crap constantly because they are anxious and need to cope is doing quite a bit of long term damage to themselves as well.

As for the 'people who smoke weed constantly are the depressed, unambitious loser types' that is a bit of a myth mate. At least in my industry (programmer) I swear 8/10 coders are massive stoners. Usually young, very ambitious people who smoke almost (if not always) every day. Are a lot of coders depressed? yes? are a lot of coders stoners..? Yes! Oh ****, so coders are depressed because they smoke weed! And not because of crazy deadlines and crunchtimes. Nope. Gotta be the weed.

I'm not saying that's what you're saying Tallshort, don't get me wrong It's just one of my pet peeves .

Funny story to lighten the mood though. My housemate is quite an avid weed smoker so there is always some stashed in the apartment. Few weeks ago he was out of town and I was deathly sick with tonsilitis. Hurt like ****ing hell and I didn't want to run down to the pharmacy to get some painkillers. After failing to roll a joint (this is after watching 5 different youtube videos and wasting so many papers) I went 'screw it' and took the weed, sprinkled it liberally over fish fingers, wrapped that in bacon and put it in the oven.

Don't know if it worked but I slept like a baby.

 

[Which Tyler]

Let us remind ourselves what we are talking about. There are two classification systems for drugs in the UK. Restricted drugs fall under three classes, Class A being the most harshly punished and Class C the least. Cannabis is Class B. These drugs are also classified through Schedules, which determine whether restricted drugs have medicinal value and who can prescribe it if so. Cannabis is Schedule 1, which means it is deemed to have no medical value and cannot be prescribed by doctors.

What is being proposed is that the Schedule is changed, so that doctors can prescribe cannabis. That won't make it legal for recreational use: it will still be a Class B drug.

This in mind, I cannot comprehend how anyone can be against this. If doctors feel that prescribing cannabis is what is best for their patient, they should have the right to do so. That politicians - who are not medically trained - ignore medical professionals on the matter of what is and isn't of value for doctors to prescribe patients is ludicrous.

Not only that, but it allows medical research into the beneficial affects of marijuana - which currently* doesn't exist in the English speaking world IIRC.

Heroine is far worse than weed in just about every respect - but is allowed for use in medicine and medical research; and has given us many very very useful drugs. Marijuana isn't, purely because it wasn't really used in Victorian times before such things as medical research existed.


I support the legalisation of marjuana (and most other stuff) anyway; but that is a side-issue to the current report. And yes, I largely support legalisation to clean up the drugs themselves (people ingesting less rat poison can only be a good thing); but also to allow for taxation, and to take trade out of the hands of the drug lords - not that I like pharmaceutical or tobacco companies (though cannabis at least would likely be much smaller "artisan" producers; partly because big pharma isn't generally interested in stuff you can grow in your garden); but they're better than the drug lords.


*Actually, thinking about it, I may well be out of date on that one; I expect I'd have noticed if it had changed, but it's perfectly possible it would pass me by.

As for what I'd rather my friends / relatives got hooked on, I'd far rather we classified drugs more closely to scientific research, than to instincts of those in power 50 years ago; eg

Source: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)61462-6/fulltext