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A Political Thread pt. 2

If you're going to put a sliding scale on it - then I'd suggest doing it based on size of farm; or percentage of income that relates to farming in the tax returns.

for some back of an envelope maths:
IF you've called Joe Smith, with a 120 acre farm that's been in your family for several generations, and gives you a farming income of £15k pa, which amounts to 80% of your (declared) income - then you are exactly the sort of person who SHOULD be handing the farm on to your kids.
IF you're called James Dyson, with a 36,000 acre farm (or at least, 36,000 acres spread over multiple locations), and gives you a farming income of £4,500k pa, which amounts to 6% of your (declared) income - then you are exactly the sort of person who should be paying inheritance tax instead.

So take the average farm size (IIRC about 200 acres) - farms smaller than that can be handed on; farms double that pay half, farms triple pay full-wack.
Alt. if farming accounts for >75% of your income, you can hand the farm on. 60-75% pays half, <60% pays full-wack.

Of course, there's also the age-old way for landowners to avoid inheritance tax (let's face it, they've been doing it since there was such a thing as inheritance tax) of handing it over to your children when they're in their prime, and you really ought to have 7+ years to live. TBH, this should be the case even more the last few decades of life expectancy in the 80s, rather than 60s. If you're keeping the farm until you die, there's a decent chance that your kids will be retiring before they inherit.
Hit 60-65 years old, give the farm to your kids - stay on in an advisory role with as much hands-on as everyone wants.
Of course, the other argument I hear a lot of (anectode warning) is "farming's hard, and my kids don't WANT to take over the farm" - in which case, why on earth do you think they have a right to avoid inheritance tax? The purpose of the exemption is to keep it in the family because the family wants to continue being farmers.

And finally, farmer's lose out (from me) by continuing to hero-worship Nigel Garage who caused the bulk of this mess in the first place - and is almost certainly one of the "farmer"s for whom the entire exercise is a tax-dodge.

ETA:
Looks like the 200 acre average I used above is the mean, the median is about 1/4 of that.
467399150_10161418758947278_4698977895437537997_n.jpg
I might be wrong here but those figures are just land value Yes your average farmer is say around 2.3 million. They get pushed above it with other assets for example barns, farming equipment, live stock value etc.

So when other assets are taken into account they are above 3 million.

It's difficult to know who's right on the figures government saying around 500 farms, some other sources the NFU etc 70,000 farms
 
Yeah, there's going to be misinformation on both sides.
The government will know what they're intending (and they absolutely aren't intending to hit family farms that actually will be handed do the next generation of farmer - or they'd have just ditched the exemption entirely) - but will be wanting to put a positive spin on things.
NFU, Farage, Clarkson and the usual suspects are absolutely happy to just invent a figure to mobilise their base.
 
Ultimately, this new £1m Agricultural property relief is really targeted at the Dysons of this world. Also Don't feel sorry for Clarkson one bit. He's in for a shock if he thinks he can just put his farm in a trust, live 7 years and carry on working on it and avoid IHT completely.

We wait to see if these value of farmland decreases in future years which will bring down their value for real farmers.
 
 
Its shorthand for posh boy name. Nobody working or even middle class calls their kid Tarquin.
It's funny)) I understood that it was a metaphor in general but didn't get how it was related to the concrete historical figure.
It's a beautiful name though..not as beautiful as Slavic male names,but also beautiful 🤔
 
The guy is doing the usual tactic of yelling like a rabid dog to cover up a complete lack of substance. Seriously, after the absolute mess of things the Tories made and the pasting they got in the election, you'd think they'd be a little more measured but nope, gone even further down the batshit insane route. Unfortunately, just like in the USA, I think the people of this country are ******* idiots with short memories and will vote this absolute shower of **** in again for sloppy seconds before working out they were the problem and kicking them to the long grass properly.
 
Trump is gonna try and disband the ICC over the next four years, isn't he?
He placed sanctions on key officials in his last term in response to them investigating Afghanistan. Don't think he can disband it, the US aren't even signatories to the Rome statute anymore.

The republicans are coming out blasting at this decision (even though it also finds a Hamas leader guilty) which is unsurprising.
 
Finally, some good news out of Washington, DC. The perv Matt Gaetz is out. 👏
Matt Gaetz NO LONGER Attorney General in waiting.

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On the farming thing, my dad has about ~50 acres of hill farm, same with the last of my uncles (not married, no kids), he's maybe about ~70 acres. I actually have about 20 myself that they both get free run of - but about 5 of it is rocks.

That's about ~150 acres all up, at say £10k/acre (which would be reflective enough) its an all up value of £1.5 million.
Then there is maybe another 100-150k in sheds and equipment.
With say 60 head of cattle on it, that's another 60-90k in livestock

So thats a decent sized hill farm, coming in at £1.7-1.8 million.

I know for an absolute fact both my da and uncle are putting more of their pensions into the farms than they are getting back in calf sales! One of the fellas back in uni called it "the most expensive hobby in Ireland" - he wasn't wrong then and nothing has changed in the ~20 years since.

Yeah you might sell a few calves at a good price of up to 1k each... but when even our old wee tractors take about £100 a tank and you'd use all that in a heavy day, or fertiliser costs ~400-500/ton it does not be long adding up!
Then see the big forage harvesters (Claas Jaguar etc), they run through about £1000 of diesel a day. So when someone is getting a contractor in to do anything, slurry, bales whatever, it's not cheap.

But even with all that, it could be worse - dairy farms are utterly screwed. The milking parlour itself can be the guts of £1m! Same with arable, they could have ballpark £1m in equipment sitting around.

[... and I'd been told, not sure how accurate it is - that you cannot pass the farm and house on then live there after the 7 years are up. Maybe they can be done in separate items, not sure.]

Regarding the numbers, govt quote 500 a year. NFU quote 70,000 - but that's total farms captured. Both do misalign obviously (70,000 / 500 = 140 years which clearly doesn't add up).
I'd also been told that if the farm owner is a married couple, then the farm can be "split" and parts handed down separately by each half of the partnership - which means the £1m becomes £2m. Not sure on truthfulness of that either.

If its not true - and knowing how distinctly below average we'd be - I'd lean toward the 70,000 figure much more than the 500/year.


To be fair to Clarkson - he's on the farm working it.
Has Dyson ever set foot on his?

I don't know what way the legislation should be formed. Probably the farm owner (or a family member from parent/grandparent's generation) would need to have owned the land for at least 20 years prior to passing it on.
Not sure how to catch out the investor that is never present though. After purchase of land, their primary income must come from said land?
 
On the farming thing, my dad has about ~50 acres of hill farm, same with the last of my uncles (not married, no kids), he's maybe about ~70 acres. I actually have about 20 myself that they both get free run of - but about 5 of it is rocks.

That's about ~150 acres all up, at say £10k/acre (which would be reflective enough) its an all up value of £1.5 million.
Then there is maybe another 100-150k in sheds and equipment.
With say 60 head of cattle on it, that's another 60-90k in livestock

So thats a decent sized hill farm, coming in at £1.7-1.8 million.

I know for an absolute fact both my da and uncle are putting more of their pensions into the farms than they are getting back in calf sales! One of the fellas back in uni called it "the most expensive hobby in Ireland" - he wasn't wrong then and nothing has changed in the ~20 years since.

Yeah you might sell a few calves at a good price of up to 1k each... but when even our old wee tractors take about £100 a tank and you'd use all that in a heavy day, or fertiliser costs ~400-500/ton it does not be long adding up!
Then see the big forage harvesters (Claas Jaguar etc), they run through about £1000 of diesel a day. So when someone is getting a contractor in to do anything, slurry, bales whatever, it's not cheap.

But even with all that, it could be worse - dairy farms are utterly screwed. The milking parlour itself can be the guts of £1m! Same with arable, they could have ballpark £1m in equipment sitting around.

[... and I'd been told, not sure how accurate it is - that you cannot pass the farm and house on then live there after the 7 years are up. Maybe they can be done in separate items, not sure.]

Regarding the numbers, govt quote 500 a year. NFU quote 70,000 - but that's total farms captured. Both do misalign obviously (70,000 / 500 = 140 years which clearly doesn't add up).
I'd also been told that if the farm owner is a married couple, then the farm can be "split" and parts handed down separately by each half of the partnership - which means the £1m becomes £2m. Not sure on truthfulness of that either.

If its not true - and knowing how distinctly below average we'd be - I'd lean toward the 70,000 figure much more than the 500/year.


To be fair to Clarkson - he's on the farm working it.
Has Dyson ever set foot on his?

I don't know what way the legislation should be formed. Probably the farm owner (or a family member from parent/grandparent's generation) would need to have owned the land for at least 20 years prior to passing it on.
Not sure how to catch out the investor that is never present though. After purchase of land, their primary income must come from said land?
Listening to the rest is politics i think they were of the opinion the 500 figure was written on the back of an envelope after some basic calculations on just land.
 

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