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A Political Thread pt. 2

Saintjay said:
I think some of it is really down to people think he's doing a poor job. Issues with immigrantion, his stance on Israel. I wouldn't be surprised if a few decide neither then it's who's base turn out. That's why i think Biden needs to be concerned about the youth vote.

A little like here people hope he'll get the vote simply by not being Trump.
Same as Starmer simply by not being a Conservative MP.
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Yeah that's fair though I'd completely disagree with it much in the same way I'd disagree with anyone saying Starmer is on the same level as these Tory *****
 
Saintjay said:
I think some of it is really down to people think he's doing a poor job. Issues with immigrantion, his stance on Israel. I wouldn't be surprised if a few decide neither then it's who's base turn out. That's why i think Biden needs to be concerned about the youth vote.

A little like here people hope he'll get the vote simply by not being Trump.
Same as Starmer simply by not being a Conservative MP.
Click to expand...
I can agree that a fair chunk of support for Biden and Starmer are the "not the other guy" vote, but Biden does actually have some legislative achievements and economic stats that, during any other era, would have been gold dust to a political candidate. The fact it doesn't seem to make a scratch on the issue shows just how insanely partisan, irrational and emotionally charged US politics is. You literally have Trump supporters talking about how great the Trump era was economically right up to the end, mentally shifting the entire Covid epidemic into the Biden era.

I think the single biggest argument is ask a Republican or a Conservative to list what they have achieved in the last 2 decades, there really is nothing.
 
did Biden become president 20 years late? Yes. Has he lost his marbles a little bit? yes. But he's hiring good people.

I think there are fair criticisms of Biden for being a fence sitter but if you look at his career he's been a committed Democrat and progressive servant. I do wish he'd be more decisive about Palestine and I'm not happy about the recent immigration choices but I really can't complain about things right now. America is in a much better place than it was four years ago.
 
die_mole said:
did Biden become president 20 years late? Yes. Has he lost his marbles a little bit? yes. But he's hiring good people.

I think there are fair criticisms of Biden for being a fence sitter but if you look at his career he's been a committed Democrat and progressive servant. I do wish he'd be more decisive about Palestine and I'm not happy about the recent immigration choices but I really can't complain about things right now. America is in a much better place than it was four years ago.
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I have a lot of sympathy for Biden re. Palestine. I think Netenyahu and his cronies have put him in a very difficult position and seem to be applying pressure at every opportunity e.g. refusing to agree to any peace proposals/ceasefires put forward by Biden. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a backchannel of communication between Netenyahu and the Republicans. Bibi loves Trump and would benefit greatly if he won the Whitehouse again which is why I think the war with Hamas will drag out until just after the election in November. So much for taking Hamas out in three days as was suggested last year.
 
ncurd said:
Listening to Pod Save the UK and Corbyn is on it for most part reasonable guy, has an axe to grind but isn't malicious about it.

He gets challenged on he reason he was ejected from the Labour party. He still refuses to acknowledge how it looks apologising for anti semitism in the party but always caveating by saying the amount was exaggerated. Even inisists he should do so and then engages in whataboutism on racism by colour and islamphobia.

Its really frustrating to listen to what is by all sounds a reasonable guy who I might disagree with at times with have such a blind spot to how that looks.
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Tell me this - do you think the media gave Corbyn a fair crack of the whip when compared to his counterparts in the Tories?
 
General Melchett said:
You look at the horrendous choice Americans face as well and it really makes you wonder how did our political systems get so bad. I realise it could be worse like in Russia or China but still.
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Are you really surprised?

A system and media that:
- rewards people with style over substance as the quick soundbite is reported for the headline whereas the media are too thick to properly present an argument of thought and substance
- liars not being continually challenged over their lies until they retract them
- essentially asks show me the money money money (from "lobbyists")
- allows "professional politicians" to exist. WTF sense is there in a 20 year old whose balls have barely dropped being able to leave a politics course in uni, then seek election to a position to make decisions that someone with 30 years more time to accrue both knowledge and wisdom would still find difficult? And don't say the people had a choice - most fuckwits the length of the country would vote their colour regardless of who was wearing the riband.

If being a member of a legislative house was a job that required a CV and interview, how many of the current politicians do you think would even make it to 2nd stage CV screening?

It is quite clear the civil service are borderline inept* - and that the politicians are simply not experienced enough in the fields they are responsible for to actually pull them.

*ask yourself this - if you can see their constant litany of f**k ups in a field you do understand, why do you think it'd be any different in any areas you don't?
 
Amiga500 said:
Tell me this - do you think the media gave Corbyn a fair crack of the whip when compared to his counterparts in the Tories?
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No I think I've been quite vocal on how much of a free ride the Tories (and Farage) get, but that doesn't mean he was a good or a sensible politician.

He'd have been eviscerated today if he did what Sunak did.
 
Amiga500 said:
*ask yourself this - if you can see their constant litany of f**k ups in a field you do understand, why do you think it'd be any different in any areas you don't?
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Do I really have to ask myself that? It's Friday night and I just want to escape (albeit temporarily) from how **** global Britain, as delivered by the Tories via Brexit, is.
 
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ncurd said:
No I think I've been quite vocal on how much of a free ride the Tories (and Farage) get, but that doesn't mean he was a good or a sensible politician.

He'd have been eviscerated today if he did what Sunak did.
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So after saying the above, do you think the media reporting on anti-Semitism within labour while under Corbyn was a fair reflection of how significant it was?
 
Amiga500 said:
So after saying the above, do you think the media reporting on anti-Semitism within labour while under Corbyn was a fair reflection of how significant it was?
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You think it's right when when apologising for pain and hurt caused for racism it's okay to say but reports were exgaerrated?

Leading questions don't get leading answers.
 
ncurd said:
You think it's right when when apologising for pain and hurt caused for racism it's okay to say but reports were exaggerated?
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Absolutely. Does it lessen the apology? Only if your going out of your way to be offended or already have ulterior motives toward the person making the apology.

Its not like he said "but it wasn't really racism", or "it wasn't all that harmful". He was saying the number of complaints were exaggerated.

To do otherwise would allow the reporter who made the original misrepresentation to continue to do so in bad faith.

A refresher here.

Mr Corbyn said in a statement: "One antisemite is one too many, but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party, as well as by much of the media."
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(I'll just bold that bit in case your missing the wood for trees.)

The link delves into this from Corbyn and where the origins of it may be.
"The numbers have been exaggerated […] the public perception in an opinion poll last year was that one third of all Labour party members were somehow or other under suspicion of antisemitism. The reality is, it was 0.3 per cent of party members had a case against them which had to be put through the process."
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Reiser99 said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Newspaper headlines: 'D-Day snub' and search for missing presenter

Rishi Sunak's decision to leave D-Day commemorations early leads many of Saturday's front pages.
www.bbc.co.uk

Interestingly, the Mail avoids anything political. Telegraph goes with axing stamp duty by the Conservatives and express focuses on apology.

Rest are a bit more accurate about Sunak.
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The Mail are awful for suppressing bad news for the Tories. When we had council elections before the last ones, they were running stories about how it was going to be bad for Labour right up to the day of the elections but after that day they didn't cover it at all except to have a single story about a single seat the Tories had gained from Labour, no mention of the hundreds of councillors they lost. The Express used to do the same but now they are fully in the cult of Farage and Reform, they are happier sticking the boot into the Tories.
 
If you read the Daily Mail you'd be surprised an election is going on. I think the 2k attack line might be the first time it made front page news.

7 way debate last night was good from hearing other voices. A lot less chaotic and better compared although there was one moment where Mordaunt wouldn't shut up that has to stop. It did remind me how much I hate Farage though who goes in special political hell for me with Johnson.
 
McTallshort said:
The Daily Mail will always going to be the Daily Mail. Not sure why you are all getting so angry about it
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Nobody is surprised the Mail is biased, it's just kinda ridiculous the extent they avoid reporting some of the biggest news in the country that everyone knows about. When Labour have bad news, you will still find it in the likes of the Guardian. When the Tories have bad news, the Mail pretends it doesn't exist. If it was little things here and there fair enough but we are talking stuff like a whole election etc... It's not even like it's simply not on the front page, it's not covered at all. Even if you actively look for it, it's virtually impossible to find. It's like there are times when it simply isn't worth lying or distorting the truth because everyone already knows it but you go and do it anyway because you simply are incapable on not operating that way.

These same readers will then accuse others of being sheep is the ultimate irony whilst having no clue whatsoever about just how much the Mail and their like don't tell them.
 

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