A Political Thread pt. 2

[Ragey Erasmus]

Looks like a sizeable group from the pro-Palestinian lot have now gone and been idiots

 

[SG59_]

Yup. Not surprised. This country has become such a mess.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I guess but really it means a 1 state solution which therefore means the Jews getting wiped out which is probably why most Jews don't like the slogan.

I think this is such a red herring at the moment. Like Israel targeted the oxygen supply of Palestines biggest hospital complex yesterday, 38 babies lives are at risk, it is state sponsored infanticide/terrorism/genocide. Take your pick on which of those words in the one that should get any decent moral human on the side of a ceasefire.

Who gives a **** if a chant from protestors protesting on behalf of the most oppressed people on earth can be interpreted as anti-semetic. That can be dealt with after innocent people start being murdered and are given the opportunity to build whatever sort of livelihood they can in such harsh conditions.

 

[The Seeker]

 

[The Seeker]

 

[The Seeker]

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Disgusting all round, from the far right people this morning, to the pro-Hamas lot this evening.

For the avoidance of all doubt, "peace marches" that call for one side to lay down their arms after being attacked, whilst simultaneously singing a slogan calling for the destruction/genocide of that side/people/state aren't actually "peace marches".

 

[The Seeker]

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think this is such a red herring at the moment. Like Israel targeted the oxygen supply of Palestines biggest hospital complex yesterday, 38 babies lives are at risk, it is state sponsored infanticide/terrorism/genocide. Take your pick on which of those words in the one that should get any decent moral human on the side of a ceasefire.

Who gives a **** if a chant from protestors protesting on behalf of the most oppressed people on earth can be interpreted as anti-semetic. That can be dealt with after innocent people start being murdered and are given the opportunity to build whatever sort of livelihood they can in such harsh conditions.

I'm not really saying it's even anti semitic. I don't think it is really just pointing out the realities of a one state solution and how it is perceived by most Jews. This conversation starts with do you think both Palestinians and Jews have a right to their own state. I think most reasonable people say yes to this question but sadly there are people on both sides that woukd advocate a 1 state solution without grasping the realities of what would happen to the Jews in said scenario.

I would need to see details on this
hospital complex but without knowing much about it my guess would be that Hamas operate in the hospital and the IDF are seiging it rather than dropping bombs on it. I'm sure if the roles were reversed Hamas would walk in and behead every jewish baby that was inside. Hamas have set up road blocks refusing to let Palestinians leave and have even shot at their own people trying to flee and are known to use human shields and hospitals as bases so its a horrible situation all round. Remember, Hamas want their people to die, the more the better from their point of view. Personally I don't think peace will ever be achieved but it certainly won't be achieved with Hamas and Netanyahu in charge.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm not really saying it's even anti semitic. I don't think it is really just pointing out the realities of a one state solution and how it is perceived by most Jews. This conversation starts with do you think both Palestinians and Jews have a right to their own state. I think most reasonable people say yes to this question but sadly there are people on both sides that woukd advocate a 1 state solution without grasping the realities of what would happen to the Jews in said scenario.

To be honest, Israel shouldn't exist and it's rotten to the core administratively. It should never have been created and the reasons for its creation pre-holocaust are vile and post-holocaust was panicked and poorly thought out. Saying that, you can't displace 9 million people or force them to live in what would be a conservative Arab state. A two state solution is the best compromise to another mess created by British government planting foreigners and partitioning land.

Tell that to emotionally charged people who've had their homes destroyed or stolen and been denied the most basic human rights though.

I would need to see details on this

hospital complex but without knowing much about it my guess would be that Hamas operate in the hospital and the IDF are seiging it rather than dropping bombs on it. I'm sure if the roles were reversed Hamas would walk in and behead every jewish baby that was inside. Hamas have set up road blocks refusing to let Palestinians leave and have even shot at their own people trying to flee and are known to use human shields and hospitals as bases so its a horrible situation all round. Remember, Hamas want their people to die, the more the better from their point of view. Personally I don't think peace will ever be achieved but it certainly won't be achieved with Hamas and Netanyahu in charge.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/israel-hamas-war-allies-concerned-shifa-hospital-attacks/

A watered down report in Western media. It's easy to find more in depth details. Israel have offered to evacuate babies though but I strongly doubt the babies would ever see their families in their life, their humanity knows no bounds…

Sieging a hospital and cutting off the oxygen supply, overnight it has run out of fuel and is non-operational. I don't really get the point that Hamas would do worse because 1) they wouldn't ever get the opportunity to unless Netanyahu told the entire IDF to take a holiday rather than just his military intelligence like on 7 October and 2) it's not exactly dignifying letting Palestinian people die slowly being watched by medical professionals who are rendered utterly helpless.

And again, the majority of people in the west protesting right now just want a ceasefire and aid in lot Gaza at first instance. It's so bad most people aren't even aware of the sharp increase of displacement of families in the West Bank that is going on simultaneously, that has nothing to do with Hamas just Israeli racism and greed.

In my opinion it's just immoral to think that Israel are still justified in their actions at this point even ignoring the last half century. It's blatantly gone beyond a fight against terrorism and is just a conquest at this point.

Netanyahu's ceasefire deal is ridiculous but raises the question as to why that isn't Israel's current approach. Take "security control" of Gaza and attack Hamas with spec ops, but he still thinks he can get away with wiping out the Palestinian people and taking Gaza and I'm not convinced he can't.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

force them to live in what would be a conservative Arab state.

*Die in a conservative Arab state.

Also, historicallty, Israel was there before Palestine, this is was crises rebooted in the 20th century, but it wasn't one started there.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I strongly doubt the babies would ever see their families in their life, their humanity knows no bounds…

Israel's evil but they're not Hamas,

Gotta imagine the most likely place for evacuations from a hospital would be either red cross or the us medical ship off the coast

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

*Die in a conservative Arab state.

Ok, it was a hypothetical and an example of why Israel can't be taken off the map.

Also, historicallty, Israel was there before Palestine, this is was crises rebooted in the 20th century, but it wasn't one started there.

And it was conquered by empires that were conquered by an empire that hasn't existed for 1500 years. Palestinians in many cases can (theoretically) go and point out the homes that their parents and grandparents lived in and had to abandon because an influx of Jews were sent there in after WW1 because of British anti-semitism and that is the founding of the modern state of Israel.

I'm criticising British manipulation of maps and plantations and the displacement of people both have caused. It has resulted in so much destruction, unrest and attempted genocides in the 19th, 20th and 21st centuries and we're seeing the worst of it. This one could genuinely end in a successful genocide, it's horrifying.

Israel's evil but they're not Hamas,

Gotta imagine the most likely place for evacuations from a hospital would be either red cross or the us medical ship off the coast

Yeah but the babies won't ever be allowed back into Gaza to even visit family as long as Israel are in control. The ask is for parents to give up their children.

 

[Saintjay]

To be honest, Israel shouldn't exist and it's rotten to the core administratively. It should never have been created and the reasons for its creation pre-holocaust are vile and post-holocaust was panicked and poorly thought out. Saying that, you can't displace 9 million people or force them to live in what would be a conservative Arab state. A two state solution is the best compromise to another mess created by British government planting foreigners and partitioning land.

Tell that to emotionally charged people who've had their homes destroyed or stolen and been denied the most basic human rights though.

I would need to see details on this

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/israel-hamas-war-allies-concerned-shifa-hospital-attacks/

A watered down report in Western media. It's easy to find more in depth details. Israel have offered to evacuate babies though but I strongly doubt the babies would ever see their families in their life, their humanity knows no bounds…

Sieging a hospital and cutting off the oxygen supply, overnight it has run out of fuel and is non-operational. I don't really get the point that Hamas would do worse because 1) they wouldn't ever get the opportunity to unless Netanyahu told the entire IDF to take a holiday rather than just his military intelligence like on 7 October and 2) it's not exactly dignifying letting Palestinian people die slowly being watched by medical professionals who are rendered utterly helpless.

And again, the majority of people in the west protesting right now just want a ceasefire and aid in lot Gaza at first instance. It's so bad most people aren't even aware of the sharp increase of displacement of families in the West Bank that is going on simultaneously, that has nothing to do with Hamas just Israeli racism and greed.

In my opinion it's just immoral to think that Israel are still justified in their actions at this point even ignoring the last half century. It's blatantly gone beyond a fight against terrorism and is just a conquest at this point.

Netanyahu's ceasefire deal is ridiculous but raises the question as to why that isn't Israel's current approach. Take "security control" of Gaza and attack Hamas with spec ops, but he still thinks he can get away with wiping out the Palestinian people and taking Gaza and I'm not convinced he can't.

The problem is the two state solution isn't wanted by the majority of people who live in Palestine and Israel.

Public support for it has dropped considerably. Around 40% on both sides. Wouldn't that just be another example of the West forcing what they thinks best on a group of people. Which is already part of the issue.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The problem is the two state solution isn't wanted by the majority of people who live in Palestine and Israel.

Public support for it has dropped considerably. Around 40% on both sides. Wouldn't that just be another example of the West forcing what they thinks best on a group of people. Which is already part of the issue.

When 60% want genocide I think it's appropriate. Western intervention doesn't need to be a wholly bad thing.

Saudi, Qatar and Iran all need to get around the table too. But a ceasefire really needs to be the priority.

I still think this will end in a genocide and successful Israeli conquest. The west has no interest in potentially harming their relationship with their only real foothold in the Levant and the Arab nations won't intervene until Israel start to attempt land grabs in Lebanon.

A peaceful solution would take decades and be one of the biggest achievements in modern history.

 

[SG59_]

Caught up with the news on the protest...

I don't think the police's approach is right and is hasn't been for a long time now - probably back when the riots started a while ago (10 years?). The police seem to just go after the weaker/easier targets and ignore some of the more questionable behaviour in a group. I'm not sure if it's a lack of resources or they're just worried about upsetting and causing more issues in a religious community.

 

[Saintjay]

Caught up with the news on the protest...

I don't think the police's approach is right and is hasn't been for a long time now - probably back when the riots started a while ago (10 years?). The police seem to just go after the weaker/easier targets and ignore some of the more questionable behaviour in a group. I'm not sure if it's a lack of resources or they're just worried about upsetting and causing more issues in a religious community.

Numbers and resources. You gather the information and pursue it after. If you have a large enough group chanting x, y, z or what ever it's just impossible to arrest them all.
Arresting people on the day also rapidly drains your resources. They have to be transported, booked into custody etc. Police simply don't have enough custody suits to process people. Hence why breach of the peace is wildly used. You don't have to charge and can realease when the Bop is over. It's a quick and easy way to remove people.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Pope Francis fires Texan bishop after criticism of reforms

Joseph Strickland is "relieved" from governance following a Vatican investigation.

www.bbc.co.uk

Quite something when even the Pope thinks you are backwards... It's strange how, for such an innovating nation, the USA has a sizeable chunk who are very very conservative and resistant to change.

 

[Amiga500]

Israel's evil but they're not Hamas,

No, they're far more subtle.

Wonder how many have needlessly died in Gaza over the years due to ongoing Israeli embargoes on medicines and medical equipment.

Bet its orders of magnitude more than 1500.

 

[Reiser99]

No, they're far more subtle.

Wonder how many have needlessly died in Gaza over the years due to ongoing Israeli embargoes on medicines and medical equipment.

Bet its orders of magnitude more than 1500.

It's the most ridiculous argument. Well the others would be worse if they could. It happens in politics. "Well Labour would be worse." when there is no evidence to support this.

Hamas would commit genocide if they could, so they are worse than the ones currently committing genocide.