A Political Thread pt. 2

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Some pretty rank takes here and online more generally.

Scenes in London and Sydney also incredibly shameful.

 

[Saintjay]

Just seems to me people are pretty horrendous when they feel there 'history' 'god' and the 'right to land' is on there side. Using historical abuses to justifie there own.

In NI i saw people using the above to rip lumps off each other. In Scotland Celtic kids throwing bricks at the Rangers kids during school lunch breaks. Some didn't even know why other than they weren't them. In Bosnia you had Muslims killing Croats who were killing Serbs in villages where they'd been neighbours for years

All sides in the wrong, all forgetting innocent men, women and children die. Yet all will claim they are right when in reality they are all tw@ts.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I was a few beers deep posting last night. I stand by everything I said but should have shown more compassion.

Some pretty rank takes here and online more generally.

Scenes in London and Sydney also incredibly shameful.

I agree that I don't think celebrating is right at all. A more sombre protest would have been far more poignant.

The false fear of Palestinians in London is boke though. Rachel Riley tweeted that she called the police because there was a car with Palestinian flags on it, she might as well tweet that she's a racist like. They're the victims and their families endure far more hardship than all but the most unlucky Israelis.

Unsurprising given the extensive propaganda owning out of Israel though. Small example of this being that Ireland is the most pro-Palestinian country in Europe and you can find countless Israeli articles and tweets saying that we are modern day Nazis. Ignoring that the majority party in the country is left wing and that we are far far further from extreme right than Israel.

It's just another example of post war bordering gone wrong and causing decades of pain for those unfortunate to live there. Free Palestine and deal with HAMAS from there.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

The false fear of Palestinians in London is boke though.

Tell that to the ransacked Kosher restaurant and the behaviour in the West End and outside the Jewish Embassy last night.

Or the Jewish schools telling students they are free to not wear their blazers for fear of abuse.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Tell that to the ransacked Kosher restaurant and the behaviour in the West End and outside the Jewish Embassy last night.

Or the Jewish schools telling students they are free to not wear their blazers for fear of abuse.

Three arrests and one act of vandalism in London a city of what 9m. False fear.

That tweet is boke too, surely you can see that is such a weak attempt to justify oppression.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Three arrests and one act of vandalism in London a city of what 9m. False fear.

That tweet is boke too, surely you can see that is such a weak attempt to justify oppression.

"False fear". This is a real fear for Jewish people in the West. Your refusal to acknowledge that stinks really.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

"False fear".
View attachment 18074

The Manchester quote is talking about a war zone in another part of the world. He's not putting anyone in the UK Jewish community in danger.

The second is a girl walking freely through the streets, the only danger she would be in is if she provoked someone. The shot of the man in prayer is probably an attempt to get an Islamophobic reaction.

No one in the UK is in danger because this isn't about Judaism. It's a blatantly obvious tiered class system of oppression that has caused all of this.

I don't know if it's worth us continuing back and forth. Not to end any argument because that's a cop out but I think you're justifying an oppressive regime and hiding behind the [absolutely awful] anti-Semitic history of the world. And you probably just think I'm anti-Semitic or a left wing lunatic. Realistically neither of us are right but we'll struggle to find common ground.

 

[Saintjay]

I'm not sure false fear is how the jewish community sees it. The damaging of property and graffiti etc was the start of Kristallnact and the final solution. Those scars run deep amongst the jewish community. People forget as a group 6 million of them were murdered and basically culled. Having been to a couple of the camps i can see why the fear it's so ingrained. I'd always suggest people go visit one as a reminder of what we as humans should never do again, and the dangers of sitting idly by.

People will argue it would never happen now in a modern world but they probably said the same back in the 1940's.

It in no way justifies Israels behaviour to the Palestine people. It's crazy to think moving them next to people who want to wipe them off the earth was a good idea. Given both sides views the whole things a mess and tbh i can never see a peace in that region.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I don't know if it's worth us continuing back and forth. Not to end any argument becathats a cop out but I think you're justifying an oppressive regime and hiding behind the [absolutely awful] anti-Semitic history of the world. And you probably just think I'm anti-Semitic or a left wing lunatic. Realistically neither of us are right but we'll struggle to find common ground.

Yeah that's fair, happy to leave it there.

It's an incredibly emotive issue so I don't begrudge anyone speaking emotively about it as a result

 

[TRF_Olyy]

this isn't about Judaism

Agree with that for the majority of people, but for a vocal minority?

Pro-Palestine protesters chant ‘Gas the Jews’ outside Sydney Opera House

Group lights flares and chants anti-Semitic slogans in unverified footage of demonstration in Australia

www.telegraph.co.uk

I can understand the tension in the Jewish communities in the West, there's a reason that their faith schools and places of worship have to have guards outside them - they're always targets whenever Israel commits atrocities

Convoy drives through London shouting 'f**k the Jews, rape their daughters'

'Vile, criminal hatred like this must not be tolerated.'

metro.co.uk

 

[ncurd]

The false fear of Palestinians in London is boke though. Rachel Riley tweeted that she called the police because there was a car with Palestinian flags on it, she might as well tweet that she's a racist like. They're the victims and their families endure far more hardship than all but the most unlucky Israelis.

Just of this Rachel Riley is a prominent woman that has spike out on something that made her a hate figure to the more extreme Corbyn left (calling him an anti-semite which I don't agree with but he certainly has a massive blind spot).

As such she receives a stupid amount of vile discourse (because internet) that gets thrown her way. Quite a lot of anti-semites use Palestine as a smokescreen like just look at the abuse any Jewish commentator made on twitter and see how many of them have Palestinian flags in their bio. (I'm unsure if Riley has ever said anything public about Israel).

My point simply being Riley might have a bit more going than simple racism.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

This thread harks back to what I said earlier, people tend to pick their side in an issue in which both sides are absolute shits. Israel is constantly provoking the Palestinians through land grabs, forced evictions, control over their supplies, frequent persecution etc. However Hamas and the like are not freedom fighters, they are religious fundamentalists week want to see the destruction of Israel, a continuation of the Islamic extremism that Israel faced in the early days of its existence.

Both sides are pretty indiscriminate in what they do, the difference is Israel have the power to control things during peace time, Palestinians do not. Israel can just keep taking the **** and none of it will get reported because it's just the odd house demolished here, a new settlement set up there. All you will see is the violent response to a constant encroachment by Israeli settlers backed up by the state and US supplies.

Neither side will accept a 2 state solution but, in between the conflicts, it's 100% Israel getting what they want, not Palestine. They are every bit as extremist as the Palestinians.

As part of the siege, the Israeli authorities have said "we are fighting animals", that's to justify indiscriminate action against the entire population, not just Hamas. That is the language of the Nazis.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Reports of beheaded babies found where Hamas has been through. Apparently there is video floating around but I'm not going to look for it.

Genuinely mental.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

US opinion divided amid battle for narrative over Hamas attack on Israel

Groups express opposing views over root cause of the attack, alongside differences over whether Gaza is still occupied

www.theguardian.com

This article makes the point at the end how this whole conflict and non criticism of the Israeli state devalues antisemitism, by not holding them to the same international standards of humanitarian law as Hamas. The main difference being Israel has infinitely superior firepower and means to kill Palestinians in retaliation.

 

[Reiser99]

I have my own views on the issue, which is mainly that both sides are wrong and like always it's the innocents in the middle who suffer.

However, any attempt to paint this as good guys vs bad is simplifying it to a ridiculous degree. Both sides have a share of the blame and even other countries need to shoulder some too. America pay lip service to a two state solution, yet continuing to supply Israel. The UK especially who basically created this mess in the first place after WW2. Unfortunately those in power will rarely accept responsibility.

Tbh my big issue is Israel constantly trying to avoid accountability by claiming any criticism is anti-semitic. Israel is not Judaism and they do not speak for all Jews. Yes anyone saying kill the Jews are guilty of anti-semitism, but criticism of how Israel acts is not. They have done an excellent propaganda campaign to equate criticism of Israel with anti-semitism and until people are allowed to criticise them fairly then they won't be held to account for their role.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Tbh I think the ones systematically going house to house killing children including babies and raping women in the street are the bad guys.

There's not really a moral equivalence imo.

 

[Reiser99]

Tbh I think the ones systematically going house to house killing children including babies and raping women in the street are the bad guys.

There's not really a moral equivalence imo.

I agree they are bad guys, but basically saying oh they are terrible so the other guys must be good is very naive and simplistic. You are able to condemn both sides for their actions and acknowledge that some actions are worse than others. That doesn't make Israel innocent though.

 

[General Melchett]

Tbh I think the ones systematically going house to house killing children including babies and raping women in the street are the bad guys.

There's not really a moral equivalence imo.

I mean the scum who do that are the lowest of the low and sit at the bottom of the food chain. There are plenty others on both sides who are complicit from the bottom all the way to the top of the leadership.

 

[Yulia]

I mean the scum who do that are the lowest of the low and sit at the bottom of the food chain. There are plenty others on both sides who are complicit from the bottom all the way to the top of the leadership.

And who's worse: someone who directly killed another person or someone who didn't kill anyone directly but who created a situation that leaded to the death of hundreds/thousands of people?
Not talking about Israel/Palestine,just in general. I'm curious

 

[General Melchett]

And who's worse: someone who directly killed another person or someone who didn't kill anyone directly but who created a situation that leaded to the death of hundreds/thousands of people?
Not talking about Israel/Palestine,just in general. I'm curious

I'm not getting into who is worse because it's a hypothetical question with many variables and a lack of source checked verified information. Generally speaking both are to blame.