A Political Thread pt. 2

[ncurd]

Who's next cab off the ranks?

She'll call a GE surely? Chuck Liz out so quickly and their ability to govern collapses.

I think it'll be sometime in the new year.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I think your over egging what that article says,

Which boils down to "factionalism in large political party", "one faction worked to ensure they were prominent faction"

None of this is revolutionary or even new news. It happened to Blair from the leftmost of the party, it happened to Brown, it happened to Milliband, it happen to Corbyn (who was a constant ringleader saying Blair would deposed when he was on the backbenches) and its happening to Starmer.


Unless anyone can prove a grand conspiracy rather than pockets of people not liking the regime. I think its just straight up factionalism and further proof we need PR to bring down monolith parties rather than just having a party of the left and one of the right.

It is new news because people like yourself were insistent that allegations of anti-Jewish sentiment weren't being fabricated. When they clearly were.

It is news because it was a campaign to remove elements from the Labour party that might address wealth inequality, even if it meant losing the election, and replacing them with guys who accept gongs, go to Oxbridge, prioritise council alliances with the Tories in Scotland and introduce the singing of 'God Save the King' to the Labour conference.

Its news because none of the media outlets that happily reported this misinformation around anti-Jewish horse manure chose to report on leaked documents indicating that there was a policy of fabricating and over egging these allegations.

Can you reference any comparable examples of in-house systematic misinformation by the apparatus of the Labour party to undermine Blair, Brown or Milliband?

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

And to think Berlusconi is the moderate voice in this new three party Italian coalition. I could weep for what is about to come to Italy.

Putin invaded to put 'decent people' in Kyiv, says Italy's Berlusconi

Russian President Vladimir Putin was "pushed" into invading Ukraine and wanted to put "decent people" in charge of Kyiv, former Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi has said, drawing fierce criticism just ahead of Italy's election.

www.reuters.com

I'm also very concerned about recent events in Ukraine. Their push is somewhat stalling in the NE and has completely stalled in Kherson. Recently acquired Iranian drones appear to be making a big difference for Russia with video showing at least 8 Ukrainian tanks destroyed in one engagement when they were ambushed during an offensiv manouver. Apparently some of the Iranian drones can operate at higher altitudes and Iran's shoestring budget equipment has been holding it's own against the wealthy Saudi proxy army in Yemen for years (so Iranian kit is not a joke).

Ukraine also still haven't shown they can halt a Russian assault when Russia direct maximum firepower in one location (currently Bahkmut in Donetsk is the frontline being pushed back) and Russia is able to source artillery shells from North Korea to keep supplies topped up. The Ukrainian success in Kharkiv region was excellent opportunism to take advantage of a weak unit in the front line then swiftly ambush and encircle a few towns. It wasn't a sign of defeating professional Russian units in a straight fight.

This is all before anything from 300k to 2 million extra Russian bodies are thrown into the front (which will make things more difficult for Ukraine even if they were only equipped with peashooters).

There is no word from NATO about what response, if any, they will offer to this escalation and they are still not supplying NATO tanks (ground to ground firing) or jets of any kind. I hope the military brain trust providing support to Ukraine can come up with something or I fear for the situation if frontlines remain largely unchanged prior to the Russian reinforcements have guns pointed at their heads and are forced to charge (or sit in the back and free up Russian professionals to reinforce the front lines).

I think Ukraine should be permitted to advertise for an international brigade. Perhaps NATO allies permitting unpaid leave for soldiers from other nations or something who wish to volunteer. I think that would get some support in some ex-Warsaw Pact countries.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

And to think Berlusconi is the moderate voice in this new three party Italian coalition. I could weep for what is about to come to Italy.

Putin invaded to put 'decent people' in Kyiv, says Italy's Berlusconi

Russian President Vladimir Putin was "pushed" into invading Ukraine and wanted to put "decent people" in charge of Kyiv, former Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi has said, drawing fierce criticism just ahead of Italy's election.

www.reuters.com

I'm also very concerned about recent events in Ukraine. Their push is somewhat stalling in the NE and has completely stalled in Kherson. Recently acquired Iranian drones appear to be making a big difference for Russia with video showing at least 8 Ukrainian tanks destroyed in one engagement when they were ambushed during an offensiv manouver. Apparently some of the Iranian drones can operate at higher altitudes and Iran's shoestring budget equipment has been holding it's own against the wealthy Saudi proxy army in Yemen for years (so Iranian kit is not a joke).

Ukraine also still haven't shown they can halt a Russian assault when Russia direct maximum firepower in one location (currently Bahkmut in Donetsk is the frontline being pushed back) and Russia is able to source artillery shells from North Korea to keep supplies topped up. The Ukrainian success in Kharkiv region was excellent opportunism to take advantage of a weak unit in the front line then swiftly ambush and encircle a few towns. It wasn't a sign of defeating professional Russian units in a straight fight.

This is all before anything from 300k to 2 million extra Russian bodies are thrown into the front (which will make things more difficult for Ukraine even if they were only equipped with peashooters).

There is no word from NATO about what response, if any, they will offer to this escalation and they are still not supplying NATO tanks (ground to ground firing) or jets of any kind. I hope the military brain trust providing support to Ukraine can come up with something or I fear for the situation if frontlines remain largely unchanged prior to the Russian reinforcements have guns pointed at their heads and are forced to charge (or sit in the back and free up Russian professionals to reinforce the front lines).

I think Ukraine should be permitted to advertise for an international brigade. Perhaps NATO allies permitting unpaid leave for soldiers from other nations or something who wish to volunteer. I think that would get some support in some ex-Warsaw Pact countries.

We could have our own "little green men". Ultimately I think NATO need to call Putin's bluff. NATO will protect its own but nothing says it is limited to that. If Putin can wage war due to fears of foreign interference in a neighbour then why can't NATO Nations? Russia won't use nukes even if Putin is mad enough to do so. Putin cannot be allowed to win as it will not be the end, he will just rinse and repeat later, we all know that's true. At some point it will get to the stage where we do have to face him down, better now than later.

 

[Which Tyler]

 

[Which Tyler]

A less pessimistic view of the last couple of days in Ukraine than Bruce's



TL;DR:
Ukraine pushing out from the 2 beachheads the East of the Oskill in Northern Luhansk Oblast.
Ukraine making good progress East of the Oskill, almost (or probably, already having) closed off Lyman from the North.

So not quite "stalled" and more, "have spent some time securing the newly liberated territory West of the Oskil River, established, then securing 3 beachheads across the Oskill (and North of the Siverskyi Donets), and are now expanding those beachheads, liberating several villages and almost encircling Russia's principal defensive position in the area.

In Bahkmut, Russia seem to have advanced by approximately one street in the last 3 weeks. Around Spirne, Russia claim (unconfirmed) to have captured 2-3 empty fields.

In Kherson, the Ukrainian assault still isn't a Ukrainian assault, as that was misinformation by the Ukrainians - Ukraine are essentially besieging Kherson, but Russia have managed to patch up a bridge into the city by filling a lock with gravel.

 

[ncurd]

It is new news because people like yourself were insistent that allegations of anti-Jewish sentiment weren't being fabricated. When they clearly were.

I suggest giving this a read before dismissing it fabricated.

Everything I never wanted to have to know about Labour and antisemitism

I want the last four years of my life back

medium.com

Anyone who want to create a vast consipiracy theory claiming it didn't happen doesn't have a leg to stand on. Now is you want to say it was weaponised sure that's acceptable but to say fabricated repeatedly **** off.

And if you worried about the National Anthem being sung at a British political rally for a major party I'd suggest get your priorities straight. Like I don't know why anyone is even talking about it on any side.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'm inclined to side with ncurd on this. There was definite sophistry going on with the right wing press and Tories as the right has just as much as a problem with anti semitism (as well as islamaphobia , homophobi/ and racism in general) as the left does but it wasn't fabricated in my view I think a lot of the left doesn't even see it as racism. They'll wrongly conflate it with anti Zionism and while this may be true in some cases a lot of the time it was just anti semitism masked as anti Zionism.

But I agree with @Bruce_ma gooshvili re the national anthem. I know it's trivial and there's lots more important things to be discussing but to your socialist Labour supporter it's **** like that that is hard to take and you feel Labour is drifting further right.

Having said that, and while I'm not a massive fan, I'm still behind Starmer mainly because he's our ( the left ) best chance of getting the Tories out even if it means Labour are nothing more than a centrist party. They're still not winning an out right majority anyway so the left are going to have to come together to beat this lot. But this is our biggest problem, I fear.

 

[ncurd]

I'm inclined to side with ncurd on this. There was definite sophistry going on with the right wing press and Tories as the right has just as much as a problem with anti semitism (as well as islamaphobia , homophobi/ and racism in general) as the left does but it wasn't fabricated in my view I think a lot of the left doesn't even see it as racism. They'll wrongly conflate it with anti Zionism and while this may be true in some cases a lot of the time it was just anti semitism masked as anti Zionism.

But I agree with @Bruce_ma gooshvili re the national anthem. I know it's trivial and there's lots more important things to be discussing but to your socialist Labour supporter it's **** like that that is hard to take and you feel Labour is drifting further right.

Having said that, and while I'm not a massive fan, I'm still behind Starmer mainly because he's our ( the left ) best chance of getting the Tories out even if it means Labour are nothing more than a centrist party. They're still not winning an out right majority anyway so the left are going to have to come together to beat this lot. But this is our biggest problem, I fear.

I think the thing that grates me most is the complete denial there was a problem. Which has actually led to a bigger problem because now people treat it as a conspiracy and deny the problem which is almost antisemitism in itself. I have a friend who is Jewish (race not religion) and was a pretty big Corbyn fan who left the party during it all simply because no one was taking it seriously.

Like we all know the Tories are worse but Labour tried to take a holier than thou stance they couldn't possibly have problem with racism. Its left a lot of issues and now there's a pretty much zero tolerance policy because that's where they ended up.

I do feel sorry for the Labour Left (I don't like far left but to pretend Starmer is anything but center-left is a joke). They desperately wanted a leader but they got a guy so in belief of their own self righteousness they refuse to see any of his many faults. He was above criticism and had a long history of making decisions unpalatable with the British public.

Just for record the Israeli government sucks. I just don't why we focus on it more than all the other equally shitty or worse regimes out there.




I get why people don't want the national Anthem sung. I just don't think it's something that should be anyone radar as a talking point.

 

[Gavin]

Liz Truss plans more immigration in effort to fill vacancies and drive growth | Immigration and asylum | The Guardian

Government likely to lift cap on agricultural and broadband workers, and alter shortage occupations list

amp.theguardian.com

Liz Truss is preparing to increase immigration to fill job vacancies and boost economic growth in a move that will anger some of her ministers and MPs.

The prime minister plans to raise the number of workers allowed to enter the UK, government sources have confirmed.

Interesting move from Truss...

 

[The Seeker]

Far-right leader Giorgia Meloni has won Italy's election, according to exit polls, and is on course to become the country's first female prime minister.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63029909

 

[The Seeker]

 

[ncurd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-63031372?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=633145a759bb920430c25880%26What%20analysts%20are%20saying%262022-09-26T06%3A35%3A37.806Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:23a8d79f-ca98-4f9e-a394-449b4ee1781d&pinned_post_asset_id=633145a759bb920430c25880&pinned_post_type=share

 

[Which Tyler]

This is a bit earlier than I was expecting - I guess I was basing things on seasons in the UK, rather than actually looking up when the heavy rains fall in Ukraine. It's going to slow things, and make transport hubs ever more important - which has to favour Ukraine with HIMARS and apparently, far superior special forces operations.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Pound hits record low after tax cut plans

Sterling sinks close to $1.03 as global markets react to the UK's biggest tax cuts in 50 years.

www.bbc.co.uk

That's pretty nutty - same as someone mentioned somewhere above my first introduction to USD was them being almost 2:1 to the pound, now they're almost evens

 

[Welsh Exile]

Imagine if Labour (especially Corbyn) had crashed the pound. You'd have gammons lining the streets with the daily Mail/telegraph/sun/express newspapers demanding action.

You still have Tories to this day insisting the 2008 crash was all Browns fault.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Pound’s plummet underlines schoolboy error by Kwasi Kwarteng

Chancellor added to market worries by pledging further tax cuts in full budget planned for later this year

www.theguardian.com

 

[Which Tyler]

Well f***

 

[ncurd]

Imagine if Labour (especially Corbyn) had crashed the pound. You'd have gammons lining the streets with the daily Mail/telegraph/sun/express newspapers demanding action.

You still have Tories to this day insisting the 2008 crash was all Browns fault.

Its insane 2008 was predominantly caused by outside factors especially the USA sub-prime mortgage collapse. Brown actually led the way globally in solving it and the UK a leading country the recovery.

2010 it was 1.63 rising to 1.71 in 2014 when it started dipping it hit a high of 1.48 in 2016 just before the referendum result it plummeted to 1.21. Its sort recovered to 1.38 in the mean time but this year its been dropping slowly with a massive dip over the last few days. That's nearly 40p of value as a direct consequence of Tory policy on two instances.

Yet still the press are going out to bat for him. Luckilly I see very little of anyone else on the right wing defending this **** even the bots on twitter are failing to drum up support for this one.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Well f***

My brain is too smooth to know what this means but it doesn't sound good?