A Political Thread pt. 2

[Yulia]

I don't know if you've seen this clip from the same Q & A?

No,but I watched the whole press conference and of course this moment with a British journalist. He used a popular expression "white and fluffy" , that was funny)

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

With respect you are not looking at things from a Russian POV. Russia has always distrusted the west and NATOs expansion East since the cold war it's made the Russians very insecure. Yes Putin is a very nasty character and the current revision of Russian history by his government is bordering on farcical but NATOs expansion has only strengthened his position.

Yet Russia has never stopped to ask itself why the new nations that joined NATO did so? As evidence, look at what has happened in the ex-Soviet nations that didn't go for NATO protection, Russia is back to bullying them again. Georgia - invaded, Ukraine - invaded. Had the breakup of the USSR been benevolent and had these nations not been terrified of Russian tyranny, they would never have joined NATO. NATO could have broken up instead and would any NATO nations have chosen to join the USSR? Nope.

Anyway Russia has been insecure for far longer than the Cold War, since before even the revolution Russia was insecure about it's position in the world. For literally centuries they have been demanding the world see them as strong and have been acting in a way to try to achieve that. Nothing has changed, they still want to be seen as strong, they still demand they be given respect whilst trying to bully their way to the top and showing no respect to anyone else.


In other news, Trump has pardoned US soldiers convicted of committing war crimes, including the murder of Iraqi children. He has also pardoned his rich supporters who were found to have lied under oath or insider trading. He is a corrupt scumbag and there will be even more pardons for his cronies. It's now just a question of how many criminals he will give a free pass to and how much damage he will do before he finally goes.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

No,but I watched the whole press conference and of course this moment with a British journalist. He used a popular expression "white and fluffy" , that was funny)

English equivalent of clean and wholesome? If so, yes that I think even in the west we would find that pretty funny description of Putin and Russia. Not that western democracies are either.

 

[Yulia]

Anyway Russia has been insecure for far longer than the Cold War, since before even the revolution Russia was insecure about it's position in the world. For literally centuries they have been demanding the world see them as strong and have been acting in a way to try to achieve that. Nothing has changed, they still want to be seen as strong, they still demand they be given respect whilst trying to bully their way to the top and showing no respect to anyone else.

Thankfully we have a good example of the Great Britain, historically secure and respectful towards other countries and nations.

 

[McTallshort]

Yet Russia has never stopped to ask itself why the new nations that joined NATO did so? As evidence, look at what has happened in the ex-Soviet nations that didn't go for NATO protection, Russia is back to bullying them again. Georgia - invaded, Ukraine - invaded. Had the breakup of the USSR been benevolent and had these nations not been terrified of Russian tyranny, they would never have joined NATO. NATO could have broken up instead and would any NATO nations have chosen to join the USSR? Nope.

Anyway Russia has been insecure for far longer than the Cold War, since before even the revolution Russia was insecure about it's position in the world. For literally centuries they have been demanding the world see them as strong and have been acting in a way to try to achieve that. Nothing has changed, they still want to be seen as strong, they still demand they be given respect whilst trying to bully their way to the top and showing no respect to anyone else.


In other news, Trump has pardoned US soldiers convicted of committing war crimes, including the murder of Iraqi children. He has also pardoned his rich supporters who were found to have lied under oath or insider trading. He is a corrupt scumbag and there will be even more pardons for his cronies. It's now just a question of how many criminals he will give a free pass to and how much damage he will do before he finally goes.

Well would love to discuss the whole Russia thing a bit more but think it's one for the history thread.

On Blackwater and it's 4 operators getting off..... Always going to happen both the shootings and the pardon.

I have a mate I served with who went into the contractor business and he always said Blackwater was all protein shakes, bandanas and gung ho dickheads. Most other contractors avoided them or let them drive down a dodgy road first.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Thankfully we have a good example of the Great Britain, historically secure and respectful towards other countries and nations.

We weren't and I would never have claimed we were. However we aren't going around using chemical weapons for political assassinations and annexing land from our neighbours now. We have many atrocities that are in the past, Russia is continuing theirs today whilst just denying everything.

 

[McTallshort]

We weren't and I would never have claimed we were. However we aren't going around using chemical weapons for political assassinations and annexing land from our neighbours now. We have many atrocities that are in the past, Russia is continuing theirs today whilst just denying everything.

No we just used chemical weapons against the Germans and Kurds

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

No we just used chemical weapons against the Germans and Kurds

Yeah, 100 years ago. Russians are doing it now on top of also doing it then. You think Russia get free rein to do what they want now because we did things 100 years ago?

 

[McTallshort]

Yeah, 100 years ago. Russians are doing it now on top of also doing it then. You think Russia get free rein to do what they want now because we did things 100 years ago?

Never said that. But we have used chemical weapons and we still develop them at Porta Down. Take a step back, think about what's happened in the East and try and understand why Russians think like they do. Also they never invaded Georgia but they did invade the Ukraine the naughty buggers

 

[Reiser99]

I'll weigh in slightly. I agree that if you go back far enough you can find terrible acts in almost every countries history. However, Britain has a huge problem of ignoring it's own history and refusing to admit the terrible things it has done. While it may be in the past, we can't really talk about other nations when we refuse to accept responsibility for our own past.

 

[Yulia]

We weren't and I would never have claimed we were. However we aren't going around using chemical weapons for political assassinations and annexing land from our neighbours now. We have many atrocities that are in the past, Russia is continuing theirs today whilst just denying everything.

How interesting do you turn our discussion. You first started to talk about historical behaviour of Russia,and then, when I (politely!) hinted on your country's past,you quickly turned it back to recent times. Although I never said that our recent behaviour is good (in my opinion, it's not).
I don't want to give any assessment to the Great Britain's past/recent politics/people,but I got yours about Russians : Russians are bad by default, regardless the circumstances,times etc etc.
I don't want to prove something,so let's just sum up:
We are: bad, angry and disgusting!
You are: decent, beautiful and in white coats!

 

[The Seeker]

 

[The Seeker]

 

[Which Tyler]

In other news, Trump has pardoned US soldiers convicted of committing war crimes, including the murder of Iraqi children. He has also pardoned his rich supporters who were found to have lied under oath or insider trading. He is a corrupt scumbag and there will be even more pardons for his cronies. It's now just a question of how many criminals he will give a free pass to and how much damage he will do before he finally goes.

Free?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

How interesting do you turn our discussion. You first started to talk about historical behaviour of Russia,and then, when I (politely!) hinted on your country's past,you quickly turned it back to recent times. Although I never said that our recent behaviour is good (in my opinion, it's not).
I don't want to give any assessment to the Great Britain's past/recent politics/people,but I got yours about Russians : Russians are bad by default, regardless the circumstances,times etc etc.
I don't want to prove something,so let's just sum up:
We are: bad, angry and disgusting!
You are: decent, beautiful and in white coats!

Way to misrepresent what I said, a quick flick through this very forum would show I very clearly do not think that about Britain at all, not even close. Also I didn't turn the discussion, I was the one who originally posted the post regarding actions Russia has taken now, it is you and Tallshort who turned the discussion to the past as a way of diverting attention away from the very real criminal actions Russia is carrying out right now. Nowhere have I denied the crimes against humanity Britain committed in the past but you seem to be under the impression that Russia did not also commit crimes against humanity in the past every bit as heinous and also seem to think that Russia should be immune to criticism for stuff that is happening right now so long as you can find something wrong that the accusers nation did in the past. Britain is not carrying out political assassinations, Britain has not carried out mass attacks on political opposition, Britain is not using highly dangerous chemical weapons in public areas, Britain is not annexing the land of our neighbours (although we have engaged in unjust warfare).

You may not want to give an assessment about Great Britain probably because chunks of Russia were not shut down by a British Novichok assassination attempt or parts shut down by a Plutonium assassination!? How long before the Russian government decides to go one step further and we have 10's or 100's dead because of Russians throwing around chemical weapons!? If Britain was carrying this out, I would be ashamed regardless of who accused us of doing so.

Russia accounts for 1/4 of all doping bans in sport too. At some time you need to recognise the problem in the country rather than claiming it's all a conspiracy. It looks idiotic when Trump does it, it looks idiotic when Russians do it.

 

[Reiser99]

Shouldn't really be surprising as it seems the U.S political scene is entirely geared to helping the rich and powerful, stay rich and powerful, but presidential pardons are a joke and make a complete mockery of the American justice system.

 

[ncurd]

Shouldn't really be surprising as it seems the U.S political scene is entirely geared to helping the rich and powerful, stay rich and powerful, but presidential pardons are a joke and make a complete mockery of the American justice system.

Occasionally they have a point to them, where the law has been applied buts its tad more complicated than that. Chelsea Manning is good example of it kinda working and soldiers that clearly shouldn't of been taken off frontline duty to PTSE/stress/fatgiue although not for just being douchebags. But yup this is definitely a both sides things presidents (and governers) have a tendency to pardon all thier allies.

 

[Reiser99]

Occasionally they have a point to them, where the law has been applied buts its tad more complicated than that. Chelsea Manning is good example of it kinda working and soldiers that clearly shouldn't of been taken off frontline duty to PTSE/stress/fatgiue although not for just being douchebags. But yup this is definitely a both sides things presidents (and governers) have a tendency to pardon all thier allies.

You are right that it can work. However does a few right pardons make up for what is probably hundreds of wrong pardons. I don't think so considering how corrupt the american political system is.

 

[Yulia]

You may not want to give an assessment about Great Britain probably because chunks of Russia were not shut down by a British Novichok assassination attempt or parts shut down by a Plutonium assassination!? How long before the Russian government decides to go one step further and we have 10's or 100's dead because of Russians throwing around chemical weapons!? If Britain was carrying this out, I would be ashamed regardless of who accused us of doing so.

No, I just rarely give an assessment about the whole country and nation basing on its past/current politics.
And that wasn't me who turned this conversation to the past, plus I never denied the crimes of my country either.
Honestly, I don't understand what do you want to prove to me. And I have a suspicion you don't understand it either.

 

[Gavin]

Boris Johnson going to sell the EU deal as a Christmas miracle....