• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

A Political Thread pt. 2

Feels like this has just delayed it rather than being a final defeat, many European nations are swinging right and not just slightly right, they are lurching quite far right. I just don't understand how people who support ardent nationalism also feel that will lead to nations cooperating with each other. By definition if your first priority is to look after your own nation above all other concerns, you will be at loggerheads with other nations more than if you accept you shouldn't always be looking out only for yourself.

Unfortunately I feel we will need to repeat the mistakes of the past before people learn, at least temporarily. Also those in Europe who think that divided is the way to go clearly didn't learn from the cold war. A united Europe can be a force to be reckoned with on the world stage, a divided one will be ignored. Anyone who thinks somehow the individual nations of Europe will have any clout if not pulling in the same direction, just look at how Europe had absolutely no say in the world from the end of WW2 to the 1990's...
 
Ragey Erasmus said:
Feels like this has just delayed it rather than being a final defeat, many European nations are swinging right and not just slightly right, they are lurching quite far right. I just don't understand how people who support ardent nationalism also feel that will lead to nations cooperating with each other. By definition if your first priority is to look after your own nation above all other concerns, you will be at loggerheads with other nations more than if you accept you shouldn't always be looking out only for yourself.

Unfortunately I feel we will need to repeat the mistakes of the past before people learn, at least temporarily. Also those in Europe who think that divided is the way to go clearly didn't learn from the cold war. A united Europe can be a force to be reckoned with on the world stage, a divided one will be ignored. Anyone who thinks somehow the individual nations of Europe will have any clout if not pulling in the same direction, just look at how Europe had absolutely no say in the world from the end of WW2 to the 1990's...
Click to expand...
I don't think so, Macron will be the first President in 20 years to be re-elected for a second term, the French turn against their leaders at the drop of a hat and despite this Macron gained more voters in primaries than Le Pen did from 2017. The closing of the gap in the secondaries looks more like a lazy electorate than a positive trend for Le Pen.

I also don't see where The National Rally picks up more voters from, they're kind of maxing out their demographics right now they don't look to have improved enough from five years ago to really claim there's been a further shift right to the point that they're a threat.

In the Primaries the two main centrist/left leaning candidates, Macron and Melenchon had 49.5% of the vote, the green party had another 4.65% whereas the two far right parties had 30% between them. It's about a 10% increase for both but the centre right party went from 20% to less than 5% of the vote in five years. I think France is fine, Macron being their strongest leader on an international stage for years will hopefully resonate with the electorate because I think Europe needs him for the foreseeable future but Macron swing voters are far more likely to sway a bit further left than far right in five years in my opinion.
 
Corbyn has apparently come out and said NATO should be disbanded to bring about peace... What? I could understand an argument being made after the fall of the USSR that NATO would be redundant but, as we see now, clearly it isn't. It's no coincidence Putin has targeted the non NATO countries. This guy really is not living in the modern world.
 
Le Frére Alpha said:
I don't think so, Macron will be the first President in 20 years to be re-elected for a second term, the French turn against their leaders at the drop of a hat and despite this Macron gained more voters in primaries than Le Pen did from 2017. The closing of the gap in the secondaries looks more like a lazy electorate than a positive trend for Le Pen.

I also don't see where The National Rally picks up more voters from, they're kind of maxing out their demographics right now they don't look to have improved enough from five years ago to really claim there's been a further shift right to the point that they're a threat.

In the Primaries the two main centrist/left leaning candidates, Macron and Melenchon had 49.5% of the vote, the green party had another 4.65% whereas the two far right parties had 30% between them. It's about a 10% increase for both but the centre right party went from 20% to less than 5% of the vote in five years. I think France is fine, Macron being their strongest leader on an international stage for years will hopefully resonate with the electorate because I think Europe needs him for the foreseeable future but Macron swing voters are far more likely to sway a bit further left than far right in five years in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I'm less optimistic. I dont think we can predict what the upper limit is on voters in France and elsewhere, who are happy to vote for parties that clearly signpost a disregard for the rule of law (and therefore democracy). The French Republicans need to get their crap together. Post-Macron his party will likely implode, same with Melenchon. Political parties are evaporating in places like France and Italy and that opens the door to non-democratic forces. Highly effective operators like Jospin and Prodi are now completely unelectable characters, because they are boring and would never go for headline grabbing soundbites.

The far right has made rapid gains globally in times of unprecedented plenty, such is the age of clickbait and 'news as entertainment'. If we have genuine economic hardship (which is increasingly possible) then a further lurch to unaccountable populists (often of the far right) is even more likely.

In other news, Corbyn is a complete imbecile for suggesting NATO should be disbanded. He's entitled to his opinion but the way guys like him, and countries like SA and India, seem to think the nationalist modern Russia is an equivalent of the non-racist principles of the USSR is bizarre. Everything that was virtuous in the USSR (and a lot of it wasn't) is now dead.

And... ecologists just won 35% of the vote in Slovenia to finish first by 13 points, which must be a record globally. Again a sign of the instability of democratic circumstances. I didn't realise Slovenia was having an election, which makes me fear the rumours of them sending tanks to Ukraine may have been an election ploy. :(
 
Bruce_ma gooshvili said:
I'm less optimistic. I dont think we can predict what the upper limit is on voters in France and elsewhere, who are happy to vote for parties that clearly signpost a disregard for the rule of law (and therefore democracy). The French Republicans need to get their crap together. Post-Macron his party will likely implode, same with Melenchon. Political parties are evaporating in places like France and Italy and that opens the door to non-democratic forces. Highly effective operators like Jospin and Prodi are now completely unelectable characters, because they are boring and would never go for headline grabbing soundbites.

The far right has made rapid gains globally in times of unprecedented plenty, such is the age of clickbait and 'news as entertainment'. If we have genuine economic hardship (which is increasingly possible) then a further lurch to unaccountable populists (often of the far right) is even more likely.

In other news, Corbyn is a complete imbecile for suggesting NATO should be disbanded. He's entitled to his opinion but the way guys like him, and countries like SA and India, seem to think the nationalist modern Russia is an equivalent of the non-racist principles of the USSR is bizarre. Everything that was virtuous in the USSR (and a lot of it wasn't) is now dead.

And... ecologists just won 35% of the vote in Slovenia to finish first by 13 points, which must be a record globally. Again a sign of the instability of democratic circumstances. I didn't realise Slovenia was having an election, which makes me fear the rumours of them sending tanks to Ukraine may have been an election ploy. :(
Click to expand...
Possibly, I think the National Rally are a spent force though and if the Republicans can get a grip they should get a lot of that voter base back, Le Pen came across terribly v Macron this time around from the pieces I've read.

I am strongly considering moving to Paris in about 5 years time (need to get my French back up to scratch, figure out what's required for me to move and probably pass a few exams so no easy task) and if Le Pen or similar got in I wouldn't go, so I really hope I'm correct.

Interestingly Ireland are shifting to far left. I think it's a benefit of us still being only partly a full nation because if we were our natural 32 county republic I could see a more insular nationalism taking hold. I don't know if Sinn Fein have the people I want to lead this country and they could not deliver on what they're promising but our next GE could be a landmark one. Possibly not too far away considering the current coalition is set to swap Taoiseach and Tainiste which is unlikely to go smoothly.
 
www.bbc.co.uk

Non-dom status: Labour pledges to replace tax-saving scheme

The party says a shorter-term scheme would stop "outdated tax perks" for the wealthiest under the scheme.
www.bbc.co.uk

First got to get into power, but would be a step in the right direction.

Also there is one thing changing it for income tax purposes but Inheritance tax as well. That can be the big one at 40% on overseas assets.
 
Ragey Erasmus said:
Corbyn has apparently come out and said NATO should be disbanded to bring about peace... What? I could understand an argument being made after the fall of the USSR that NATO would be redundant but, as we see now, clearly it isn't. It's no coincidence Putin has targeted the non NATO countries. This guy really is not living in the modern world.
Click to expand...
The actual quote is a bit less ridiculous, he's talking a hypothetical world peace scenario:
Asked whether he still believed Nato should be disbanded, he told Times Radio: "I would want to see a world where we start to ultimately disband all military alliances."
Click to expand...

Dumb to bring it up now, but meh - nothing he said was particularly controversial from a pacifist, just journalists knowing they can get a soundbite to angry up the masses again
 
TRF_Olyy said:
The actual quote is a bit less ridiculous, he's talking a hypothetical world peace scenario:


Dumb to bring it up now, but meh - nothing he said was particularly controversial from a pacifist, just journalists knowing they can get a soundbite to angry up the masses again
Click to expand...
Media taking things Corbyn says out of context, say it ain't so!

Honestly for every good journalist there are 10 who for me are just scum. Intentionally misleading people whilst calling it factual news is one of the worst things that currently affect this world. Disinformation and misinformation is bad enough on the net, a media that portrays itself as a source factual news contributing just leads to more division and conflict and supports the childish nature of British and American politics.
 
www.theguardian.com

Homes For Ukraine whistleblower says UK refugee scheme is ‘designed to fail’

Worker claims confused staff are ‘making up response’ to applications and visas are withheld to keep numbers down
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

The source, speaking on condition of anonymity, said he had dealt with numerous cases where UK visas had been issued for an entire Ukrainian family apart from one child, which in effect stopped the family travelling to the UK.

"This allows the government to say we've issued lots of visas. Yet, because they have withheld one, it's a guarantee those Ukrainians won't travel," said the source.
Click to expand...

So... the Home office are acting dispicably to refugees...
And this is without mentioning the absolute mess of the paperwork to discourage Brits from fully finishing it.
Or the placement of solitary females Ukrainians with solitary make Brits, to... discourage them from coming.
 
Last edited:


A perfect example of someone who gets told what to think and then regurgitates it like a zealot as if it is their own heartfelt opinion.
 
Last edited:
Ragey Erasmus said:


A perfect example of someone who gets told what to think and then regurgitates it like a zealot as if it is their own heartfelt opinion.
Click to expand...

Haha the second she said when I opened the Daily Mail I thought FFS here we go.

I was a on a train once going to work and I got told off by a daily mail reader, Who was sitting next to me, when the page she was reading touched by leg. Couldn't believe it.
 
Ragey Erasmus said:


A perfect example of someone who gets told what to think and then regurgitates it like a zealot as if it is their own heartfelt opinion.
Click to expand...

What's worse is that as a woman she believes all that sexist, misogynistic nonsense that it's the woman's fault or responsibility for the actions of men, which men have managed to get ingrained in our culture so that it is everywhere.

She's literally arguing against her sex.
 
Reiser99 said:
What's worse is that as a woman she believes all that sexist, misogynistic nonsense that it's the woman's fault or responsibility for the actions of men, which men have managed to get ingrained in our culture so that it is everywhere.

She's literally arguing against her sex.
Click to expand...
There's a few like that here and in the USA especially Trump supporting women who don't believe a woman can be POTUS because of their hormones and would start a war because of it. o_O
 
This is what Corbyn said as quoted in a news source that has never peddled the anti-semitic line against him:

Mr Corbyn, a long-standing critic of Nato, told Times Radio: "I would want to see a world where we start to ultimately disband all military alliances.

"The issue has to be what's the best way of bringing about peace in the future? Is it by more alliances? Is it by more military build-up?

"Or is it by stopping the war in Ukraine and the other wars… that are going on at the present time, which are also killing a very large number of people?

"And ask yourself the question, do military alliances bring peace? Or do they actually encourage each other and build up to a greater danger"

www.thenational.scot

Corbyn: Disband military alliances like Nato to bring about peace

The former Labour leader is a long-standing critic of Nato.
www.thenational.scot www.thenational.scot

It is moronic from a historical standpoint and deserves to be lambasted. He is clearly inferring that a defensive military alliance is some kind of contributor to Russian military aggression like he has been watching RT on repeat. Like the practice of "Russification" hasn't been around for well over a century.

en.wikipedia.org

Russification - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

He is instead proposing a fantasy land where wars just stop magically by themselves and that there is no need for alliances as different factions can live in harmony.

And anyone who has read my historic posts will know I am usually very supportive and defensive of Corbyn.
 

Similar threads

Bada-Bing!
Antisocial, societal issues thread
7 8 9
Replies
163
Views
8K
Bada-Bing!
Bada-Bing!
Bada-Bing!
The Biking thread
3 4 5
Replies
82
Views
5K
Bada-Bing!
Bada-Bing!
Bada-Bing!
The Ukraine War thread
27 28 29
Replies
577
Views
25K
Ragey Erasmus
Ragey Erasmus
T
Is anyone using a club management system for their local club?
Replies
0
Views
925
Try-Hard Tackler
T
M
Had to stare someone down at a red light
Replies
6
Views
1K
The Seeker
The Seeker

Latest posts

Top