5 vital players for each country ahead of the world cup?

[big ginger 8]

Really struggling to do one for England... or anyone... England's really difficult though between big depth, a lack of World stars in the team, and a lot of guys who had bad last matches.

but any Irish vital five that doesn't start with Conor Murray is, imo, daft. Himself and Mike Ross are imo the only two starters where the removal of them lead to a marked decrease of quality in the 23 due to their superiority over the second and third choice, and Murray is far more vital to how Ireland play. Sexton would be the third choice simply to how pivotal he is to Schmidt-ball and how well he understands it - Jackson and Madigan would cover him fine in general imo, but they do not have Sexton's big game experience and mastery of the Joe way.

Buggered if I could figure out the other two. O'Brien is a quality player but given that a) He has yet to play for a Schmidt Ireland and b) They won a Grand Slam without him, I hesitate to call his carrying and general presence vital. The return of Strauss probably makes Best less vital, the emergence of Toner and Henderson makes POC less vital and Healy seems less vital in light of McGrath, Kilcoyne and Cronin. Heaslip and Kearney are both the only options with serious amounts of international experience in their position, but I'd strongly doubt they'd be vital.

O'Brien played the Autumn series. I think we can beat most of the 6N teams without him. However for the big three and England I think he becomes vital.

 

[Rich Taff]

O'Brien played the Autumn series. I think we can beat most of the 6N teams without him. However for the big three and England I think he becomes vital.

Nice of you to put Wales in the big three, but I wonder which SH team you left out.....

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Nice of you to put Wales in the big three, but I wonder which SH team you left out.....

Argentina.

 

[Big Ewis]

Nice of you to put Wales in the big three, but I wonder which SH team you left out.....

 

[big ginger 8]

Nice of you to put Wales in the big three, but I wonder which SH team you left out.....

[video=youtube_share;fwt2puWu9m0]http://youtu.be/fwt2puWu9m0[/video]

....

 

[Big Ewis]

uhmm....he was....he was joking, big ginger........yyyeahh...

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

highlights anywhere ?

 

[Peat]

O'Brien played the Autumn series. I think we can beat most of the 6N teams without him. However for the big three and England I think he becomes vital.

Kinda forgot that. Still, given it took two games for the team to twig things, I'd say my statement is still mostly valid. You could have beaten us without him. Still, there's a fair argument for his inclusion in a 5 most vital, even if Ireland's back row depth is beginning to look mildly silly.

It's also rather foolish to do these things now, I think. If Rhys Ruddock gets some AI gametime and replicates his Argentina carrying there, O'Brien becomes even less vital. Similarly, Henderson's progress could affect the argument as well (its not inconceivable that a return to this topic in a year's time has Henderson mentioned in the most vital). It's also possible that O'Brien has three World Class performances in the AI and I look rather silly.

I do feel pretty confident that nothing will change Murray and Ross/Moore being absolutely vital though.

 

[big ginger 8]

uhmm....he was....he was joking, big ginger........yyyeahh...

What really/ How on earth did I not notice and reply in turn?

Kinda forgot that. Still, given it took two games for the team to twig things, I'd say my statement is still mostly valid. You could have beaten us without him. Still, there's a fair argument for his inclusion in a 5 most vital, even if Ireland's back row depth is beginning to look mildly silly.

It's also rather foolish to do these things now, I think. If Rhys Ruddock gets some AI gametime and replicates his Argentina carrying there, O'Brien becomes even less vital. Similarly, Henderson's progress could affect the argument as well (its not inconceivable that a return to this topic in a year's time has Henderson mentioned in the most vital). It's also possible that O'Brien has three World Class performances in the AI and I look rather silly.

I do feel pretty confident that nothing will change Murray and Ross/Moore being absolutely vital though.

Yeah fair enough, I'd agree with pretty much all of that.

 

[Big Ewis]

What really/ How on earth did I not notice and reply in turn?

hehe lol, the fk do I even bother..

 

[nzlizard]

For NZ

Coles - no back up really so he needs to be there
Savea - Speaks for itself
Ben Smith - great attacking force
Read - If he keeps his form of the last few years
Retallick - Best lock in the world and works like anything each game.

Honorable mentions

Conrad Smith - solid in midfield, esp if we don't blood Fekitoa enough.
SBW - If he can get his form back

 

[Feicarsinn]

Kinda forgot that. Still, given it took two games for the team to twig things, I'd say my statement is still mostly valid. You could have beaten us without him. Still, there's a fair argument for his inclusion in a 5 most vital, even if Ireland's back row depth is beginning to look mildly silly.

It's also rather foolish to do these things now, I think. If Rhys Ruddock gets some AI gametime and replicates his Argentina carrying there, O'Brien becomes even less vital. Similarly, Henderson's progress could affect the argument as well (its not inconceivable that a return to this topic in a year's time has Henderson mentioned in the most vital). It's also possible that O'Brien has three World Class performances in the AI and I look rather silly.

I do feel pretty confident that nothing will change Murray and Ross/Moore being absolutely vital though.

I think you're underrating the drop off in quality in the back row after O'Brien. We have some very good other back rows, but none of them have anywhere near the same kind of complete game as O'Brien. Henry can compete excellently on the ground, Heaslip carries very well in open play, Ruddock is one of the best grafters in the British Isles, Henderson is an incredibly destructive runner and O'Mahony is is great at doing all of the dirty jobs, but O'Brien can do all of these things to just as high a standard. He's a truly world class player surrounded by some very good players and I don't think that difference is highlighted enough. The difference in being good at international level and being dominant is a huge one.

If you take Kieran Reid out of the All Blacks back row they're still a really good unit, but you lose a hell of a lot of the fear factor. If nothing else, O'Brien brings that to a back row of otherwise rather unheralded international players (err, except for Jamie Heaslip with his 5 Lions caps?)

 

[Peat]

I think you're underrating the drop off in quality in the back row after O'Brien. We have some very good other back rows, but none of them have anywhere near the same kind of complete game as O'Brien. Henry can compete excellently on the ground, Heaslip carries very well in open play, Ruddock is one of the best grafters in the British Isles, Henderson is an incredibly destructive runner and O'Mahony is is great at doing all of the dirty jobs, but O'Brien can do all of these things to just as high a standard. He's a truly world class player surrounded by some very good players and I don't think that difference is highlighted enough. The difference in being good at international level and being dominant is a huge one.

If you take Kieran Reid out of the All Blacks back row they're still a really good unit, but you lose a hell of a lot of the fear factor. If nothing else, O'Brien brings that to a back row of otherwise rather unheralded international players (err, except for Jamie Heaslip with his 5 Lions caps?)

By your lights, yes. I think you're underrating the quality of O'Mahony and Henry, who I think are a lot more complete than you give them credit for, and possibly overrating O'Brien, who for my money hasn't put in too many World Class all round game performances at international level, and who still appears to be more indisciplined than I like. What I mean by the all round game performances is there's been games where he's shown fantastic breakdown skills, and games where he's shown fantastic carrying, but very rarely does he do both. Maybe he will do so under Schmidt.

 

[McTallshort]

England would manage without Launchbury but not a fully firing Lawes.
Care yes
Brown yes
Farrell yes
Robshaw yes.

 

[Patchey]

England would manage without Launchbury but not a fully firing Lawes.
Care yes
Brown yes
Farrell yes
Robshaw yes.

Agreed save for Farrell.

IMO a fit, filly firing Ford, Cips or maybe even Burns would bring more to our game than Farrell. I'd say more important is a hooker (pick one of Hartley, Webber or Youngs) whose set piece is firing. So probably Hartlet.

 

[Feicarsinn]

By your lights, yes. I think you're underrating the quality of O'Mahony and Henry, who I think are a lot more complete than you give them credit for, and possibly overrating O'Brien, who for my money hasn't put in too many World Class all round game performances at international level, and who still appears to be more indisciplined than I like. What I mean by the all round game performances is there's been games where he's shown fantastic breakdown skills, and games where he's shown fantastic carrying, but very rarely does he do both. Maybe he will do so under Schmidt.

The Lions tour was a pretty good showcase of what O'Brien can do. On merit he should have started at least the second two tests, if not all three, and was arguably the best back row on the tour.

 

[Peat]

The Lions tour was a pretty good showcase of what O'Brien can do. On merit he should have started at least the second two tests, if not all three, and was arguably the best back row on the tour.

He was notably used as a decoy runner more than a carrier in the test he started, so that's not an all round performance, and I'm not overly fussed about the pre-test games as an example of test match ability.

 

[McTallshort]

Agreed save for Farrell.

IMO a fit, filly firing Ford, Cips or maybe even Burns would bring more to our game than Farrell. I'd say more important is a hooker (pick one of Hartley, Webber or Youngs) whose set piece is firing. So probably Hartlet.

I would question Fords and Cips bottle and Burns form last season. Farrell is the man in the hot seat and the 10 jersey is his to lose.

Agree regarding the hooker and Hartley on his day is by far the best but he is still prone to moments of madness and made last years Wales game closer than it should have been.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

So who are they for each country? Those 5 players who every fan will be holding their breath and hoping they don't get a long term injury between now and September 2015 because they are so vital for their team and there is no alternative of equal calibre or their absence will significantly weaken the team's chances of a shot at the Webb Ellis trophy or making it far in the competition.

England:

Robshaw
Launchbury
Corbisiero
Farrell
Brown.

The All Blacks:

Read
Savea
Conrad Smith
Ben Smith
Dane Coles because the alternative is Mealamu at 36 come the next WC and then after that the ABs don't yet have a solid 3rd choice hooker option.

Australia:

Folau
Moore
Hooper
Slipper
Palu

SA:

JDV
Bismarck Du Plessis
Etzebeth
FDP
Le Roux - who gives the Springboks their X-factor.

Wales:

AWJ
North
Faletau
Jamie Roberts
Halfpenny

Ireland:

Sean O'Brien
O'Connell
Healy
Sexton
POM

France:

????? I'll let the French fans fill this one in. I can only think of Dusautoir and Fofanna as being so vital to the team.

Agree, or disagree? What about other countries?

So we possibly have one of our first casualties of RWC. How many more? And how many of the vital ones out injured now can get back in time and also be in form.

 

[McTallshort]

England need on form,

1.Lawes
2.Hartley (I know hes a plonker but on form he is the best Hooker)
3.Brown
4.Robshaw
5.A scrum half