5 vital players for each country ahead of the world cup?

[Every Time Ref]

The thought of Ben Youngs as a key player is depressing in the extreme, but your logic is watertight.

 

[Peat]

The thought of Ben Youngs as a key player is depressing in the extreme, but your logic is watertight.

The assumption that after a summer break and prolonged time in an England camp that Youngs will still be in form, that Care won't be in form, and that Care's next in line anyway does not strike me as watertight.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Touché, Peat, touché indeed.

 

[Shaggy]

You can't say everyone is entitled to their opinion and then caveat it, that doesn't make sense.

What you are really saying is...not everyone is entitled to their opinion.

People who are hate filled racists, homophobic people are not entitled to an opinion....in my opinion!

On a different topic should be lynch Connor O'Shea for trying to turn robshaw into a 7?

Of course I can place a caveat on it, because it's my opinion, and it makes perfect sense in a democracy (which most of us live in); freedom of speech is a right that most of us enjoy, but there are slander and privacy laws which are caveats on that privledge (which makes perfect sense).

A hate filled racist or a homophobic person is a bit of a stretch from a disagreement over an opinion on a rugby matter anyway, but the chances of a person so filled with hate not making a personal attack on someone (my caveat) is pretty remote in my view.

Who determines how much hate is "hate filled" anyway? Remarks on racism or homophobia might be quite relevant if that's the topic that's being discussed; the important part is to have the discussion and educate if possible, isn't it?

A rational person is probably going to consider any rational argument, regardlesss of whether it's contrary to there own; and by rational, I mean well thought out, supported by facts (if possible).

Anyway, just to make my opinion abundantly clear, there's a difference between someone "attacking", for want of a better word, your opinion, and carrying out a personal attack on someone. If you can't tell the difference between the two, or you're so sensitive that you're hurt by someone disagreeing with your opinion, then you've got no place on a forum (in my opinion)

I acknowledge that this isn't what this thread is about, even though I find this topic interesting, and am happy to discuss it elsewhere or by PM if necessary. I don't really have an opinion on players crucial to any other nation aside from my own ( and I've already provided that), so I'll end my post here.

 

[Peat]

I think the robshaw discussion is really interesting myself. I've never rated him as an openside, but that's because I'm comparing him to a glut of very good specialist 7's that litter international rugby atm. I do however rate him as a workhorse type blindside who could easily slot into a world class backrow combination given the balance is right.

A backrow of 6. Robshaw 7. Tipuric. 8 Ben Morgan for example has all the ingredients. Robshaw being the workhorse, Tipuric the breakdown and link play, and Morgan the go forward that Robshaw and Tips possibly lack. Lineout could be an issue though.

My point is that it's unfair to dismiss Robshaw just because his skillset isn't as great as some other more specialised players. I'd probably have him in the Wales side ahead of Lydiate atm, although I'd still prefer a Warbs/Tips combo.

I'm not dismissing him as a player; I'm dismissing his ability to fit easily into other teams' units. As you say, it's all about balance, and Robshaw's skillset is an odd one to balance - tell the truth, I don't think England have done a good job of doing that really. Which is sorta an odd thing to say, as he does most things, but he misses out on the specialised areas, those that mainly come from extraordinary athleticism.

But, having said that, I am going to dismiss him a little because he lacks the skillset of more specialised players. Ultimately, in international rugby, as long as you do nothing badly, it's better to do a few things incredibly well than everything really well. Or so I believe at any rate. Three players each doing something incredibly well is the ideal balanced back row. Of course, what's even better is doing a lot of things incredibly well.

For me, where Robshaw excels most is his intelligence; he very rarely makes a mistake and is very alive to half-opportunities. It makes him fantastic around the breakdown, both in terms of scragging scrum-halves and at spotting gaps in the guard. Not many rash offloads either. Incredibly consistent too. What he needs around him are exceptional gamebreaking athletes, by and large. I'd improve on your Tipuric/Morgan suggestion with Croft/Vunipola, personally. Croft brings the raw pace and wide support that Robshaw lacks, plus he brings the lineout ability; Vunipola is the ice-breaker and destructive tackler that Robshaw isn't. It's short a specialised ballhog, but every member can perform the role if it's on, which I find myself preferring these days (at least, when I can't pick three specialised ballhogs, and we are talking England here soooo...) but elsewise I really like it. Morgan on the bench to punish people when the game opens up.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

So who are they for each country? Those 5 players who every fan will be holding their breath and hoping they don't get a long term injury between now and September 2015 because they are so vital for their team and there is no alternative of equal calibre or their absence will significantly weaken the team's chances of a shot at the Webb Ellis trophy or making it far in the competition.

England:

Robshaw
Launchbury
Corbisiero Didn't make final squad
Farrell
Brown.

The All Blacks:

Read
Savea
Conrad Smith
Ben Smith
Dane Coles because the alternative is Mealamu at 36 come the next WC and then after that the ABs don't yet have a solid 3rd choice hooker option.

Australia:

Folau
Moore
Hooper
Slipper
Palu

SA:

JDV
Bismarck Du Plessis
Etzebeth
FDP
Le Roux - who gives the Springboks their X-factor.

Wales:

AWJ
North
Faletau
Jamie Roberts
Halfpenny Likely to miss RWC

Ireland:

Sean O'Brien
O'Connell
Healy
Sexton
POM

France:

????? I'll let the French fans fill this one in. I can only think of Dusautoir and Fofanna as being so vital to the team.

Agree, or disagree? What about other countries?

Just revisiting my original post. Corbs is no longer vital for England and only Halfpenny looks likely to miss the RWC, but Liam Williams looks like his replacement and Biggar to take over the kicking duties. But the rest of the players look on course to at least start the RWC.

 

[Chistera]

Just revisiting my original post. Corbs is no longer vital for England and only Halfpenny looks likely to miss the RWC, but Liam Williams looks like his replacement and Biggar to take over the kicking duties. But the rest of the players look on course to at least start the RWC.

Just to fill in the French part, now with Trinh-Duc gone, who would have been the key player of our WC in my opinion:
Maestri - he has to pick up the slack of Pape and Flanquart, whoever he partners at second row
Picamoles - our main guy, if he doesn't run the ball up the field as he consistently does, our whole pack will go backwards.
Michalak - he's not that good (at least on a consistent basis), but his cover is so poor - Tales - that we need him at his best level, 75 mins a game, except for Romania and Canada.
Fofana - we need him to step up and recover his stellar 2013 form, he's not quite there today and right now, Bastareaud is more effective than him
Huget - our most in-from back, seems to be grazing world-class

Dusautoir doesn't make it because he's not the player that he used to be and, being 33 and having already missed 2 preseason games due to injury, I don't figure him regaining his to top level in the coming months, in contrary to Fofana, who I believe could do it. If we get to rest him the pool games and progress as far as the semis, his experience will be key, as well as of others (Mas, Swarzeski, Pape, Parra).

 

[CaliRa1]

NZ
Coles
Savea
Carter
A Smith
Read

 

[CaliRa1]

Australia
Genia
Cooper
Moore
Giteau
Simmons

 

[CaliRa1]

South Africa
B du Plessis
FdP
Pollard
le Roux
Burger

 

[optimuswolf]

My view on England

Robshaw - i think he might be 2015s dussautoir.

Youngs - he is on form, care isn't and wriggles offers no running threat.

Joseph - he may not be getting the spectacular tries he got in the 6N but he is holding defenders and giving the back 3 the space to use their pace

Cole - v good at scrum time and excellent at the breakdown

Watson - this boy could well embarass a few defenders. Great feet, rapid and confident.

Ive not named many forwards mainly because we have quite decent strength in depth.

Also deliberately omitted ford as I'm not sure of him in the crunch games and Farrell is an able deputy.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Du Preez - Otherwise its Pienaar or Paige (seeing as we've left our 3 best at home). If Du Preez could somehow recapture some of his form I'm suddenly optimistic.

Alberts - We've really missed the quality of his carries and hits (even if only for 60 minutes). Quite simply, he generates momentum, gets things started.
Le Roux - Gives us that little something extra, that play-making ability further out we tend to lack but I'm assuming here he isn't making those unforced errors he has a penchant for. Big assumption..
Bismarck - An on-form Du Plessis will be criticall; especially he needs to find his man in the line-outs. Strauss is off form big time.
Vermeulen - Arguably our best player or at least most consistently good player. The stocks at 8 also drop off sharply beyond him.

 

[Superalexmarket]

Pumas:
Creevy
Ayerza
Lobbe
Sanchez
Imhoff
Plus: JMH.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

france
apart form Dusautoir, no particuar 5. it all depends on attitude for the French. leadership plays a part in this though.

ireland
their locks and loosies. Ireland excel when they retain possession with forwards in unison driving over, and adjacent to, the ruck. but they can't keep it too tight all day, so it's more vital that the locks and loosies do their thing than it is their front rowers.

Wallabies
Pocock. he needs to be picked first of course.
front row. have made massive strides to eliminate what has been their biggest weakness for a long time.
whoever plays at 12. Cheikas style excels with an attacking 12, whether that be Giteau, Beale, or Toomua.

Springboks
du preez. like TRF_stormer2010 says "if he can recapture his form..." then the boks are a big chance.
vermeulen. because he's awesome. (if he can successfully come back from injury)
bismark. all round great player. the springboks will be looking to bully the opposition at the breakdown. bismark is key here, as he is like an extra loosie.
etzebeth. he's big.
burger. because i'm hungry.

All Blacks
coles. backup options are not so good.
nonu. to save carter's butt if the forwards aren't dominating. carter doesn't play well behind a pack that is going backward.
the Smiths.

Wales
the Joneses. Sorry, couldn't narrow it down to 5.

England
Theodore Humpledink the third.
Sir Frederick Winterbottom.
To be honest, I couldn't pick 5 as the rest of their players are pretty average.

Alternatively, for the All Blacks to win, the following are vital.
dusautoir - we need him to have a bad game if we are to beat the french.
mr irish - all irish players shake in their little green booties when they play the all blacks, ensuring the all blacks win. sorry.
halfpenny - we need him to be injured. too soon? sorry guys.
token - vital that some token black player gets picked for boks despite not being the best player in their position. sorry again.
quade cooper - important that he gets picked to start, as we can rely on him stuffing up and handing us the game. not sorry.

 

[GoTheNaki]

For the All Blacks:

#1 Nonu - If Nonu is injured, it's all over. Sorry, he is probably our most vital piece. If Nonu disappears, then Carter will play like trash(ref: See lost game vs Australia, even look at the next game, who was playing fantastic? That's right, Nonu.), then our game won't flow, the ABs will fall over. SBW at 12 does not work. Conrad doesn't play as Conrad without Nonu. Nonu draws defenders in for the likes of the world dangerous attackers of - Savea, Ben Smith, Nehe, Naholo etc. to get away.

#2 McCaw - This man does a lot of things right. A lot of illegal things right... Vital.

#3 Kaino/Read/Messam/Vito - If one or two of these guys have a fantastic tournament, it is all go for us Kiwis.

#4 Aaron Smith - I am...... Not a fan of his... When he plays Northern Hemisphere teams. He kicks away possession when the teams we play from up there(even SA), like to keep it and just bunt and bash away at us.

#5 Ben Smith - It's gotta be Ben Smith... He is no Israel Dagg on 2011/2012 form, slipping through defenders with the goosey or whatnot. But he's still a Super Rugby Champion. If he's involved in a positive way, we play really well.



As for the Aussies:

Cooper/Pocock/Genia(**** Phipps, honestly, YOU CHOSE HIM CHEIKA??)/10/12

Doesn't matter how good Folau is, and he's good... If his front-men are crap, and his first and second receivers don't give him good ball or set-ups. Pff, won't matter.