5 vital players for each country ahead of the world cup?

[TRF_heineken]

Strangely enough I wouldn't incluce Jean de Villiers or Bismarck du Plessis in a list of 5 players I'd hate to lose towards 2015, not that they aren't two of the best players we have but in those positions we actually have a lot of depth in quality and their replacements quite regularly have better performances in any case. My list of 5 would be;

1 F du Preez - because the quality drops off rather sharply and he fits our game plan
2 E Etzebeth - our best player, arguably best jumper at 2 in the world and the rest are either on the green side or the grey side
3 W le Roux - we actually have a creative outside back for once and at 15 too boot, losing Le Roux would be losing 10 points per game
4 F Malherbe - our only true specialist tight head in the squad beside J du Plessis who has become just too much of a liability in general play
5 D Vermeulen - depth; beyond him we don't have much at 8 that fit our game

Others who might fall just outside 5 IMO but we can manage without;
B du Plessis; Strauss, Brits or Burden are able cover
M Steyn; on the green side but both Goosen and Pollard have more to offer though experience is valuable and consistency is yet to be proven for the rookies
J de Villiers; we have other captaincy options in F Louw or at a push V Matfield, other center options include form youngsters J Serfontein and D de Allende or Frans Steyn

Agree to disagree...

For me JDV and Bismarck are vital. Both as players, but also in the form of leadership.

My top 5 would be:
JDV
Bismarck
Etzebeth
FdP
Francois Louw

I can see why many would pick Le Roux, but his defence is just a bit of a shambles at the moment. he needs to work on defence otherwise he could be a liability.

I picked these guys as experience will as always be a vital factor. We have a very green(ish) side still, and getting the core ready and experienced will only make the challenge easier.

 

[Feicarsinn]

While I'd agree with POC and Sexton. I don't think SOB is vital. Yes he's good but we've plenty of depth in backrow.

I'd say POC for obvious reasons.
Murray is vital for our game.
Sexton obviously.
I think Healy and Best too are extremely vital. Yes we've other hookers but it's big drop down (excluding Cronin who's better off bench)
Again McGrath has done well as has Kilcoyne and Cronin but Healy gives us a big gap more in class

I think SOB is only one of maybe 2 players in the Ireland side who could get into a world XV. While we do have a lot of talent in the back row, the step down in quality is enormous. He's our best man at the breakdown and with ball in hand, being one of the very few truly destructive runners we have. If we were to face South Africa or Australia with him in the side I'd fancy our chances, otherwise I couldn't see us coming out on top.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think SOB is only one of maybe 2 players in the Ireland side who could get into a world XV. While we do have a lot of talent in the back row, the step down in quality is enormous. He's our best man at the breakdown and with ball in hand, being one of the very few truly destructive runners we have. If we were to face South Africa or Australia with him in the side I'd fancy our chances, otherwise I couldn't see us coming out on top.

I do think he's possibly our best backrow but I don't rate him that highly that he'd make a world XV. And I don't think gap is that big. Maybe I'm bit sceptical because he's had injury issues but I think we wouldn't be completely screwed without him. Don't get me wrong I accept we are a lot better with him

 

[FrenchFan]

yeah coz we're so deep. (ALRIIIIIIGHT !!!!) but still man. Fofana ain't scoring tries but his tackling and moves on attack and passing are brilliant help to the French XV. He may not have been '2013 Twickenham try' all year, but in more attention to detail, consistency, and dirty work he's shined as a beautiful, sparkling little pearl......with fresh steaming feces around it. Yup...you just can't have it all atm playing for France...

But it's true besides Fofana and Parra, I picked the others to fill it up. Picamoles isn't primordial for France. Bastareaud isn't either, and both Dulin and Huget could be replaced by virtually as good if not better.
Since we're on the subject, I fancy the concept of an almost radically different looking France team. I think some guys are being picked out of routine and because they want some....(try not to laugh)....some "cohesion" ...and "continuity" on the team.

I don't mean to be dismissive when I say none of the above players are crucial. I don't see any player as crucial to the team with the exception of maybe an in-form Parra because of his kicking and ability to give direction to the game. But even he has completed lost his footing.

None of the players are empowered to establish themslves as leaders. They're just going thru the motion in their position.

Fofana scored some stunning tries both in Top 14 and H Cup with disgusting ease. I remember one try against us at Clermont straight after kick-off, out of nothing. Beating the cover defense of Huget and Clerc I think like they weren't even there.
He was flogged last year in the name of continuity. Yet all they got was a ONE try return, from a centre of his calibre this is a joke.

 

[London_Italian]

Sergio Parisse
Alessandro Zanni
Andrea Masi
Alberto Sgarbi
Leonardo Ghiraldini

We havn't got a hope

 

[Sam Owen]

Wallabies
Folau
Hooper
Ashleigh-Cooper
Nick White
McCabe

Springboks
Bismarch Du Plesis (he's probably got the coolest name in Rugby history)
Francis Louw
Willem Alberts
Etzebeth
JDV

All Blacks
Reid
SBW
Savea
Kaino
Ben Smith

 

[Big Ewis]

I don't mean to be dismissive when I say none of the above players are crucial. I don't see any player as crucial to the team with the exception of maybe an in-form Parra because of his kicking and ability to give direction to the game. But even he has completed lost his footing.

None of the players are empowered to establish themslves as leaders. They're just going thru the motion in their position.

Fofana scored some stunning tries both in Top 14 and H Cup with disgusting ease. I remember one try against us at Clermont straight after kick-off, out of nothing. Beating the cover defense of Huget and Clerc I think like they weren't even there.
He was flogged last year in the name of continuity. Yet all they got was a ONE try return, from a centre of his calibre this is a joke.

yes I remember that try, it was a record for quickest try scored of the season, maybe ever in Top 14 history, can't remember.



To have the acute killer instinct to just "go for it" headfirst so early, right after kick-off, no gameplan settled yet, no situation to exploit the team created, nothing. Nothing at all. Just shows you the kind of player he is. And what really BAFFLES me is his very average speed. Dude isn't nearly a sprinter, but he's so technical/crafty he breaks a ton of tackles all the time.

Sergio Parisse
Alessandro Zanni
Andrea Masi
Alberto Sgarbi
Leonardo Ghiraldini

We havn't got a hope

give it a little more time. It's been a rough patch lately...

 

[Jaguares]

Argentina:

Marcos Ayerza
Patricio Albacete
Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe
Marcelo Bosch
Juan Imhoff

England:

Joe Launchbury
Chris Robshaw
Billy Vunipola
Owen Farrell
Mike Brown

NZ:

Keven Mealamu
Sam Whitelock
Kieran Read
Dan Carter
Ben Smith

AUS:

Sekope Kepu
Michael Hooper
Wycliff Palu
Matt Toomua
Israel Folau

SA:

Bismarck du Plessis
Eben Etzebeth
Francois Louw
Fourie du Preez
Willie le Roux

Wales:

Richard Hibbard
Sam Warburton
Alun-Wyn Jones
George North
Leigh Halfpenny

Ireland:

Cian Healy
Sean O'Brien
Jamie Heaslip
Jonathan Sexton
Rob Kearney

Scotland:

Ross Ford
Richie Gray
Kelly Brown
Sean Maitland
Stuart Hogg

France:

Nicolas Mas
Pascal Pape
Thierry Dusautoir
Wesley Fofana
Brice Dulin

 

[Big Ewis]

Nicolas Mas
Pascal Pape
Thierry Dusautoir
Wesley Fofana
Brice Dulin

pfff, what are you talking about, Pascal Papé ? We left him at home last June and went to Australia and we.....oh...wait....hmmm.........

No but, lots of ppl on here don't understand this thread based on what they've posted. There's a distinction between Top 5 players on a team, and then the notion of a "Top 5 vital" list. Vital means if you remove that one guy, your team lacks an entire dynamic in itself that nobody else can bring at the same level or close.

For England or France, fullbacks Bike Mrown or Drice Bulin have become that, as their counterattacks and 'defenders beaten' stats have become a trademark of their team. When you watch France or England play, you *will* see those two crazy little nerveball cats catch high balls, beat defenders and set fire in the opposing camp with dazzling footwork.

Sean O'Brien or Stephen Ferris aren't "vital" to Ireland. SOB is in the Irish Top 5 players atm most probably, I'm sure we can all agree, but they've shown during the last 6N they not only didn't need him, but they actually did very well without him. I remember how brutal IRE were at the breakdown when the Welsh came over to visit Dublin. Henry but even more so POM were havin' a blast on the ground. So one couldn't say SOB is a Top 5 vital Irish players right now, because Ireland the nation happens to have enough depth in the third row atm to exclude the notion of putting SOB in there.
Sexton is an Ireland vital player. He's gone, they're in a near-panic state and nothing works the way it usually does. They don't have anyone close to him. He is - a vital player.
Kearney and Heaslip seem to fit that description. Healy too for his presence in the scrum and in the loose.

 

[big ginger 8]

As good as Henry is SO'B is a vital player for us. Against the top teams we need him. A backrow containing PO'M, Henry and Heaslip lacks someone to do the big carries through the middle leaving us with reallly only Healy for it.

Kearney isn't as vital as he used to be by the World Cup we should have quite solid back up in Robbie "Destroyer of Toulouse" Henshaw and Jared Payne as well as a host of wings who can cover fullback.

Otherwise fair enough.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

pfff, what are you talking about, Pascal Papé ? We left him at home last June and went to Australia and we.....oh...wait....hmmm.........

No but, lots of ppl on here don't understand this thread based on what they've posted. There's a distinction between Top 5 players on a team, and then the notion of a "Top 5 vital" list. Vital means if you remove that one guy, your team lacks an entire dynamic in itself that nobody else can bring at the same level or close.

For England or France, fullbacks Bike Mrown or Drice Bulin have become that, as their counterattacks and 'defenders beaten' stats have become a trademark of their team. When you watch France or England play, you *will* see those two crazy little nerveball cats catch high balls, beat defenders and set fire in the opposing camp with dazzling footwork.

Sean O'Brien or Stephen Ferris aren't "vital" to Ireland. SOB is in the Irish Top 5 players atm most probably, I'm sure we can all agree, but they've shown during the last 6N they not only didn't need him, but they actually did very well without him. I remember how brutal IRE were at the breakdown when the Welsh came over to visit Dublin. Henry but even more so POM were havin' a blast on the ground. So one couldn't say SOB is a Top 5 vital Irish players right now, because Ireland the nation happens to have enough depth in the third row atm to exclude the notion of putting SOB in there.
Sexton is an Ireland vital player. He's gone, they're in a near-panic state and nothing works the way it usually does. They don't have anyone close to him. He is - a vital player.
Kearney and Heaslip seem to fit that description. Healy too for his presence in the scrum and in the loose.

Spot on.

 

[munstermuffin]

As good as Henry is SO'B is a vital player for us. Against the top teams we need him. A backrow containing PO'M, Henry and Heaslip lacks someone to do the big carries through the middle leaving us with reallly only Healy for it.

Kearney isn't as vital as he used to be by the World Cup we should have quite solid back up in Robbie "Destroyer of Toulouse" Henshaw and Jared Payne as well as a host of wings who can cover fullback.

Otherwise fair enough.

I agree my point is we do have a decent amount of international class back rowers so the drop isn't as big as say Healy down to whoever, Sexton down to Jackson, Murray down to Reddan. Like even POC is super important for leadership but if D. Ryan got fit and Toner keeps form up then that's not as major in playing terms either.
Ireland's biggest issue will be in the centre next year and getting the right mix

 

[Big Ewis]

Spot on.

Spot on what ? Are you...are you trying to let me know you have a spot somewhere on your..skin ?



You are extraordinary. :ninja:

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Spot on what ? Are you...are you trying to let me know you have a spot somewhere on your..skin ?



You are extraordinary. :ninja:

Haha, it means you are absolutely correct. Get with the lingo BE.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

jesus Ewis thats why i voted for you for the Dubya Award

 

[TRF_Olyy]

jesus Ewis thats why i voted for you for the Dubya Award

Then it was an incorrect vote.
Grammar =/= vocabulary.

 

[Big Ewis]

Haha, it means you are absolutely correct. Get with the lingo BE.

jesus Ewis thats why i voted for you for the Dubya Award

Then it was an incorrect vote.
Grammar =/= vocabulary.

I see you're all used to my very literal style of posting...everything I say is first degree and should be taken with the utmost possible serious one can manage. theblindside, maybe the second part of my post could've served as indication as to the spirit of the post ? I don't know, I am only Big Ewis at 6:50pm, not the old Big Ewis who wrote that...but I'm sure he was as I always am. Serious, solemn....grave.

Say eh, let's get back to Top 5 most vital..

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I see you're all used to my very literal style of posting...everything I say is first degree and should be taken with the utmost possible serious one can manage. theblindside, maybe the second part of my post could've served as indication as to the spirit of the post ? I don't know, I am only Big Ewis at 6:50pm, not the old Big Ewis who wrote that...but I'm sure he was as I always am. Serious, solemn....grave.

Say eh, let's get back to Top 5 most vital..

Your sense of humour is a bit hit and miss with me. Sometimes I get, sometimes I don't. With the above, I just thought it maybe your Qatari background and you may not have come across what Spot on means.

 

[FrenchFan]

yes I remember that try, it was a record for quickest try scored of the season, maybe ever in Top 14 history, can't remember.

yep that's the one, you found it, exactly as I remember it. He just makes look so easy

Funny that so many sides can all come up with a list of names, we can't. I'm telling you none of our guys are vital. You could all replace them tomorrow and start all over again.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

I couldn't disagree more on people picking North. In many ways, I'd rather see us play Eli Walker or Hallam Amos. North has cost us three times the points he's been worth for us since the Lions. Hopefully he can spring back, but I'm near the end of my leash with him and his awful defence.

I'd say-

Sam Warburton
Leigh Halfpenny
Jonathan Davies
Alun Wyn Jones
Toby Faletau

I'll do others when I'm in more of a list-compiling mood. Which could quite easily be five minutes time. So don't mind me if I do a Scotty.