5 vital players for each country ahead of the world cup?

[iINDOMINUSxx]

I'm not 100% sure that Scotty knows what "vital" means.

For Australia it'd definitely be their first choice front row - beyond that I'm not sure. In the past you'd say Genia and Cooper, but there's more than capable backups knocking about at the moment so if one or both was sh*t then there's someone to come in. Probably Folau and he's a step up on anyone else, and, as above, maybe AAC - he's such a classy player and slots in most anywhere in the backs.

clearly i do since i am not as stupid as you make me out to be. if Nick Cummins was eligible to play for australia he would be australia's starting winger no question about it. he isn't in the current squad because he is in japan. offcourse he cant play for australia but if he was then he would be australia starting 11. but maybe he isn't that vital for the australian team but he would be vital in the back line if he was eligible to play

 

[Jaguares]

For the Wallabies, I've picked the 5 players on the difficulty of replacing them:

- Michael Hooper (if Pocock is fit we are safe, but that's a big "if")
- Steven Moore (little depth at hooker - Moore critical at set-piece and combative around the park)
- Will Skelton (a bench player for the Wallabies and Tahs, but there's no one else like him in Australian rugby and he creates massive problems for defences)
- Israel Folau (no words necessary really)
- Henry Speight (very few genuinely damaging specialist wingers in Aus - Speight is a stand out)

I'm not sure about Skelton, he's an impact player, so I think he isn't vital. Rob Simmons right now is the best Aussie jumper. In modern rugby I think that's more important, besides NZ and SA have world class second rows, a jumper as Simmons is more important than an impact players as Skelton. Carter also seems to me a more important lock, only he's starting at international test level, but with some more caps he will be very important, he's more solid and reliable than Skelton IMO

 

[LittleGuy]

You'd write it;
Van der Merwe or with the name added DTH van der Merwe.



Is this the same Willem Alberts from Pretoria? That said, Namibia should certainly go after Torsten van Jaarsveld (hooker captaining the Orange Free State in the Currie Cup opening round) and Anton Bresler who is a regular starting lock for the Sharks.

Wow HUGE error by me, I meant Bresler, not sure why I though of Alberts, maybe thinkign of my fantasy team this year.

DTH misspelling is me being incredibly lazy.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Sergio Parisse
Alessandro Zanni
Andrea Masi
Alberto Sgarbi
Leonardo Ghiraldini

We havn't got a hope

i'm going to change that, i think i have a better idea for it.

so this is my italian 5 vital players
Sergio Parisse
Martin Castrogiovanni
Alberto de Marchi
Leonardo Sarto
Michele Campagnaro

 

[TRF_Olyy]

clearly i do since i am not as stupid as you make me out to be. if Nick Cummins was eligible to play for australia he would be australia's starting winger no question about it. he isn't in the current squad because he is in japan. offcourse he cant play for australia but if he was then he would be australia starting 11. but maybe he isn't that vital for the australian team but he would be vital in the back line if he was eligible to play

Disagree completely.
Cummins is a good winger, but he's not vital at all. They could replace him with a number of players and they'd play as well.
Vital means "absolutely necessary/essential". First XV =/= Vital.

 

[Big Ewis]

Nick Cummins is good, but Australia definitely don't *need* him. Nobody will replace his immense professional interviewing skills, but on the field yeh Aus can manage without him fairly easily.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

i think nick cummins is underrated though. i do rate him very highly. i suppose if Digby Ioane move's back to the reds or if Drew Mitchell i suppose he wouldn't be vital but i'd say he is a definite starting wallabie for the 11 shirt

 

[Kapa O Pango]

For the All Blacks

...

...

...

...

...

WYATT CROCKETT

AND

Richie McCaw.

 

[Rich Taff]

I couldn't disagree more on people picking North. In many ways, I'd rather see us play Eli Walker or Hallam Amos. North has cost us three times the points he's been worth for us since the Lions. Hopefully he can spring back, but I'm near the end of my leash with him and his awful defence.

I'd say-

Sam Warburton
Leigh Halfpenny
Jonathan Davies
Alun Wyn Jones
Toby Faletau

I'll do others when I'm in more of a list-compiling mood. Which could quite easily be five minutes time. So don't mind me if I do a Scotty.

Totally agree on AWJ, Faletau and more importantly JDII (How much did we miss him last year?)
Not sure about Warbs, as we have an excellent replacement in Tipuric. I'd consider Lydiate more important, as the teams confidence on his tackling around rucks allows us to play a more open game.
I'd also put North in for 1/2p. He misses a few tackles, but his sheer presence ties up defenders, opening things up for JDII and Roberts. 1/2p's kicking is undoubtedly fantastic, but we can cope without him (and often play more attacking rugby as we can't just kick every time we get a penalty inside/outside the opposition half).

 

[Big Ewis]

I'd like to interject if I may in your Welsh affairs there. I reckon perhaps Gethin Jenkins is one of the 5 for Wales. I've always liked this guy, he's just got that brutal mug on his face all the time, but anyways: he was close to MOTM in Wales' last awesome int'l in South Africa, one of my favorites in recent memories, and was absolutely valiant and monstrous throughout. Brutal at the breakdown, and he's got days where he's a handful in the scrum. Like one example is his importance in Millennium during that 30-3 match, he was one bad boy during scrum time. Dan Cole had his hands full. And besides, this may go against my argument, but the guy has like 500 Welsh caps and is just a linchpin of Wales Rugby as a whole.

 

[Darwin]

Speight isn't even eligble for the wallabies yet and he's one of their most vital players?

If we think in terms of next years RWC - yes. I think he will be absolutely vital for the Wallabies. Australia have really lacked firepower out wide since Ioane's departure - Speight will bring a completely new dimension to the Wallabies attack. Like Folau he can create something from nothing - opposition sides will have to mark him very closely (which should create far more space for others), and even then he is very hard to contain...

I'm not 100% sure that Scotty knows what "vital" means.

For Australia it'd definitely be their first choice front row - beyond that I'm not sure. In the past you'd say Genia and Cooper, but there's more than capable backups knocking about at the moment so if one or both was sh*t then there's someone to come in. Probably Folau and he's a step up on anyone else, and, as above, maybe AAC - he's such a classy player and slots in most anywhere in the backs.

I'm not sure whether Australia's first choice props are as vital as they have been in the past. At times there has been a massive drop-off between the (mediocre) starting props and the (completely useless) reserve props, but that is no longer the case. TH is a 50:50 call between Alexander and Kepu these days, and though Slipper is firmly the first choice LH I don't think there is that much of a drop down to Sio (who is getting better and better). Below that the quality does get a bit thinner so I suppose the starting props are still pretty important, as if they are injured Australia have to rely on the likes of Cowan and Ryan on the bench (or starting if there are further injuries)...

 

[LittleGuy]

I'm really hoping Uruguay qualify to see how their scrum matches up to the Wallabies. They are going to be overwhlemingly overclassed in every other facet, but if Los Teros start getting the push on I'll have a **** eating grin on my face.

 

[RoosTah]

I'm not sure about Skelton, he's an impact player, so I think he isn't vital. Rob Simmons right now is the best Aussie jumper. In modern rugby I think that's more important, besides NZ and SA have world class second rows, a jumper as Simmons is more important than an impact players as Skelton. Carter also seems to me a more important lock, only he's starting at international test level, but with some more caps he will be very important, he's more solid and reliable than Skelton IMO

Simmons probably is the best jumper, but Carter and Horwill are both also quite strong and to a certain extent they're all exchangeable at lock, so that's why I didn't pick any of them as "vital". Skelton isn't really exchangeable, and whilst he comes on late he so often wins or seals games with his play that I think he'll be a vital player for the wallabies come the world cup.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

To re-address the two Wales based posts (It's the 'No rugby at all' fortnight during the off season in which my interest wains to a mild interest in having a ferocious argument about Dan Biggar's passing game with my brother, so forgive me for ignoring the worldwide debate in favour of domestic affairs)-

Sam Warburton, if anything, represents the leadership group. He's an iconic figure, a model professional and a figure all players, regardless of the level they play at or the talent they possess, should look up to. It also helps that he's bloody good at rugby. Justin Tipuric is possibly my favourite player, but Sam is our captain and I don't want to see us enter a game without him in the 23 (In that regard, he's a lot like Ryan Jones has been for quite a long time). Though I wouldn't disagree with the inclusion of Lydiate.

Halfpenny's mostly selected for his tackling and positioning, then thirdly his kicking, which for some reason is all people seem to notice. Best defensive fullback in the world by a country mile.

I was going to pick Gethin, but we have Paul James, who's actually a better scrummager- Geth grows in significance if we have lose two of our four main backrowers (Lydiate, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau) - As per this summer. He's still a fantastic player, and, as stated, showed it in June.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Isn't Gethin Jenkins getting pinged more at the scrum now for things like not driving straight and collapsing? In the 6N he got 2 yellows for scrum offenses in 2 games one after the other. The Welsh scrum isn't as strong as it used to be so he can't get away with it as frequently now.

 

[Peat]

Really struggling to do one for England... or anyone... England's really difficult though between big depth, a lack of World stars in the team, and a lot of guys who had bad last matches.

but any Irish vital five that doesn't start with Conor Murray is, imo, daft. Himself and Mike Ross are imo the only two starters where the removal of them lead to a marked decrease of quality in the 23 due to their superiority over the second and third choice, and Murray is far more vital to how Ireland play. Sexton would be the third choice simply to how pivotal he is to Schmidt-ball and how well he understands it - Jackson and Madigan would cover him fine in general imo, but they do not have Sexton's big game experience and mastery of the Joe way.

Buggered if I could figure out the other two. O'Brien is a quality player but given that a) He has yet to play for a Schmidt Ireland and b) They won a Grand Slam without him, I hesitate to call his carrying and general presence vital. The return of Strauss probably makes Best less vital, the emergence of Toner and Henderson makes POC less vital and Healy seems less vital in light of McGrath, Kilcoyne and Cronin. Heaslip and Kearney are both the only options with serious amounts of international experience in their position, but I'd strongly doubt they'd be vital.

 

[Big Ewis]

England is a tough one indeed. For England, you'd think immediately "flyhalf" as they function through him so much traditionally and seem to pick one guy who's their starter for a 7-year stretch or so. I would actually put Owen Farrell there for England, but it's a bit awkward as we've just seen two other flyhalves play well on a number of levels in NZ just some months ago. But still, over longer stretches, Owen Farrell is quite "vital", isn't he, to England.

B.Vunipola is gigantic and very useful but some would rather pick Ben Morgan, I may be one of those in fact. I don't know England flanker situation, but I'm sure England fans don't consider Robshaw or Tom Wood as "vital", despite their consistent, often prolific work in every game. Don't see em much, but they work their butts off each time.
Is Dan Cole vital ? Don't think so, he may not be England's best scrummager and isn't a master in the loose either. David Wilson's there.
Hartley ? Don't think so. Youngs is fine.

I do think Mike Brown is vital to England, along with Farrell. I think we can add the second row with Launchbury and Lawes, or at least one of those. And so far Yarde is the best winger we've seen from England easily so, him too.
The center position is similar to France's, very deep, so many good combinations to try out, but we probably have Fofana as a Vital 5. For England, I don't think any of 36, Burrell, Eastmond or even Tuilagi (as seen during the last 6N) are vital.

Many England fans mention Corbs, and he's sort of the second coming of Christ the way he's been talked about, but we just can't put him in the Vital 5 as we haven't seen him play int'l test ball in too long a while. Maybe he's just not the dominant scrummager we once saw, and with the new rules, form, etc...

So in conclusion, I'd say, I may be wrong: Mike Brown, Yarde, Farrell, Lawes, Launchbury.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Tom Youngs can't throw well under pressure at the line out or hook the ball under the new scrum engagement sequence. He has fallen behind both Hartley and Webber IMO.

Lawes; well we've got Parling who can slot into the number 5 shirt. Attwood is also there and has not yet been given a proper run by Lancaster. This reduces Lawes vitalness IMO, as England do have depth in this position.

Yarde? Not sure yet he's proved himself in the top 5 as to prove invaluable. His defence was exposed by the ABs. He'll have to work hard next year to correct this deficiency. But agree he is a shoe-in in the starting XV on the right or left wing for the WC if he is fit.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Tom Youngs can't throw well under pressure at the line out or hook the ball under the new scrum engagement sequence. He has fallen behind both Hartley and Webber IMO.

Agree with the throwing, but not the hooking. People were going on about that a lot a few months ago (pre-6n or pre-June, can't remember) but he's more than adequate.
Hartley is far far worse at hooking, and quite often just doesn't bother. Lost a few against the head in NZ due to his hooking.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Agree with the throwing, but not the hooking. People were going on about that a lot a few months ago (pre-6n or pre-June, can't remember) but he's more than adequate.
Hartley is far far worse at hooking, and quite often just doesn't bother. Lost a few against the head in NZ due to his hooking.

Sorry, I've not seen Youngs hook the ball cleanly. The scrum has to adapt with him at hooker, by pushing over the ball.

The throwing at international level is a worry though as it seems he can only throw when the pressure is on to the front of the line out, which limits England's options.

He is dynamite in loose though, but he shouldn't be first choice or second if he can't do his core duties well.