[2024 Six Nations] Ireland v Wales - 14:15, Lansdowne Road

[munstermuffin]

I'm still amused that Irish fans are continuing to discuss selections as if they matter. Could probably stick an u12's side out and still win the tournament at this point.

Our U12s are playing Namibia Saturday so are not available

 

[munstermuffin]

I actually think he might be the best 9 behind Dupont in the game, and as a Munster fan it hurts me so badly to have to admit it. While he does get a relatively comfortable ride behind the current pack his contribution goes way beyond moving the ball away from contact, with his defensive and covering game in particular world class. For a guy who struggled to get past McGrath at Leinster not too long ago his all round game is now exceptional.

On the subject of scrumhalves, it was interesting rewatching Casey's performance from the comfort of my sofa last night. Many, myself included, were highly critical of his kicking but I was actually very surprised at just how little he kicked, and how good his kicking was after that first one that went out out on the full. I don't think he kicked more than 6 or 7 times in the whole game and generally they were quite good, with a couple of excellent ones - the touch finder into the Italian around 38 minutes, the chip over the top from the 22 that led to Keenan gathering. I think a lot of fans views were clouded by that first kick, but to be honest I'm not sure it is justified. His passing was superb all day, with every pass, off either side, out in front of the receiver, and really quick and long. He doesn't at this stage bring the same variety or decision making around the contact area as JGP, but then again neither did JGP at the same stage of his international career.

Nothing to be hated for JGP is the best 9 suited to the gameplan. Horses for courses mentality applies to plan too.

 

[dirty harry]

Just found out Adam Beard is only 28... just entering his prime, that could be 4-6 more years @welsh Has complaining about him lol

 

[Welsh Exile]

What is it about booing one of your own do you dislike? I nearly smashed up a number of TV's in that Cuthbert era, as did I in the Chris Czeckai era lol.

It's purely down to the reason you said where you get these situations like Cuthbert or Priestland and it's just counter productive. There's always exceptions I suppose but I'd probably say I'd save it for players I thought were not putting in any effort and/or weren't being professional but say what you like about Cutherbert's, Priestland's and Beard's ability, or lack thereof, you can't say any of those guys don't/didn't try their best or acted unprofessionally (not that I can recall anyway)

 

[OllyM97]

I'm not normally one to feel sad about Wales' decline in recent years. However, I miss the days when this game was a "heavyweight clash". The whole build-up so far has had the feel of a second rate test match. Like it or not, the Six Nations needs a strong Welsh side. This game feels like a formality and it should never be like that. The edge that this fixture had in the 2000s and most of the previous decade has gone and from a neutral, it's sad to see.

 

[Which Tyler]

You remember Welsh rugby in the 90s very differently to me.
Irish too, for that matter, given "heavyweight clash", "wooden spoon decider" would seem more appropriate

 

[OllyM97]

You remember Welsh rugby in the 90s very differently to me.
Irish too, for that matter, given "heavyweight clash", "wooden spoon decider" would seem more appropriate

Wasn't on about the 90s - Ireland and Wales were more often than not the bottom two teams in the 90s, I was on about the decade pre 2019 RWC when this game in most seasons had a bearing on the Championship. Ireland/Wales from 2008-19 was more often than not a belter. Now it's a hugely diminished fixture.

 

[Which Tyler]

Sorry, I'd read "in the 2000s and most of the previous decade" as being the 00s and 90s.
But yes, I see how it cold be read as 00s, and the decade previous to current.

My apologies

 

[dirty harry]

It's purely down to the reason you said where you get these situations like Cuthbert or Priestland and it's just counter productive. There's always exceptions I suppose but I'd probably say I'd save it for players I thought were not putting in any effort and/or weren't being professional but say what you like about Cutherbert's, Priestland's and Beard's ability, or lack thereof, you can't say any of those guys don't/didn't try their best or acted unprofessionally (not that I can recall anyway)

To be fair Cuthbert is a gent. I regularly see him at the pool with his daughter bless him. From everything I've heard hes a very good professional, effort isnt a problem, he was just a late convert, who had a massive physical presence and limited skillset. He went through a real tough spot when he was constantly picked and played looking depressed, it must have taken some strength to stand in front of 75k people!

 

[dirty harry]

I'm not normally one to feel sad about Wales' decline in recent years. However, I miss the days when this game was a "heavyweight clash". The whole build-up so far has had the feel of a second rate test match. Like it or not, the Six Nations needs a strong Welsh side. This game feels like a formality and it should never be like that. The edge that this fixture had in the 2000s and most of the previous decade has gone and from a neutral, it's sad to see.

Most of the previous decade? Between 2010 and 2020 played 13, 6 wins each and a draw.

Infact doesnt Gatland have a winning record over Ireland with like 8 wins 7 losses.

And since 2000, only England have won more ***les than Wales, 6 champs and 4 grand slams to Irelands 3?

Anyway I know what you mean, 2020 onwards Pivac and the WRU obliterated Welsh rugby, it's been a lean 4 years with only 1 championship win. Good news is, hopefully we will be back in contention by the next RWC, and it could always be worse... we could be Scotland lol

 

[OllyM97]

Most of the previous decade? Between 2010 and 2020 played 13, 6 wins each and a draw.

Infact doesnt Gatland have a winning record over Ireland with like 8 wins 7 losses.

And since 2000, only England have won more ***les than Wales, 6 champs and 4 grand slams to Irelands 3?

Anyway I know what you mean, 2020 onwards Pivac and the WRU obliterated Welsh rugby, it's been a lean 4 years with only 1 championship win. Good news is, hopefully we will be back in contention by the next RWC, and it could always be worse... we could be Scotland lol

i meant all of the decade from 2010-20. Don't know why I said most. This was always the fixture that I looked forward to the most in that time period because it was always a good game, usually close and it had its fair share of argy bargy as well. Normally Gats would "stir the pot" ahead of a game against Ireland and throw in a barb or two but he hasn't done that this time - I think because he knows that irking Ireland before the game, when they are so superior to Wales anyway, could massively backfire.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

i meant all of the decade from 2010-20. Don't know why I said most. This was always the fixture that I looked forward to the most in that time period because it was always a good game, usually close and it had its fair share of argy bargy as well. Normally Gats would "stir the pot" ahead of a game against Ireland and throw in a barb or two but he hasn't done that this time - I think because he knows that irking Ireland before the game, when they are so superior to Wales anyway, could massively backfire.

Yeah it was one where the teams hated each other but the fans got on for the most part and it was pretty 50/50. Was always the game I was most nervous for because it was never a guaranteed win or loss. Always expected us to pull ahead based on the provincial/club game but Wales hung around way longer than I expected and then fell apart far quicker. Too early to condemn them as well, I think they'll figure it out within the next 8 years at most.

 

[dirty harry]

Yeah it was one where the teams hated each other but the fans got on for the most part and it was pretty 50/50. Was always the game I was most nervous for because it was never a guaranteed win or loss. Always expected us to pull ahead based on the provincial/club game but Wales hung around way longer than I expected and then fell apart far quicker. Too early to condemn them as well, I think they'll figure it out within the next 8 years at most.

8 years?!

Jeez I was looking at the squad and some of the talent and hoping wed bounce back in maybe 2 years, ready for some momentum to the next RWC...

We have a lot of talent, but none of them have experience. Mathias, Lloyd, Lake, Jenkins, Teddy William's, Basham, Botham, Carter, Fender, Morse, Martin, Mann, Morgan, Tshiunza, Bevan, Llewellyn, Grady, Winnett, Edward's etc all are under 24, and have high potential. Dyer is only 24 too, both Costelow and Lloyd although look useless are 22 also.
All of these have had Welsh camp involvement, I think only 4 are uncapped.

complimented by the likes of Domachowski, Reffell, Wainwright, Watkin etc who are all 26 or so...

By the next RWC these 26 players will all be 20 caps plus better off, and even the holders in their prime.

I'm not worried long term, I think plenty of these will step up and be good international players, I AM worried about RWC seeding, and how far down the pecking order we will be by then. Theres no point pulling an Ireland or Scotland, and peaking at the wrong time and failing to go deep into the tournament...

 

[Welsh Exile]

Kin hell, is that an optimistic post from @dirty harry? I think I need a lie down.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

8 years?!

Jeez I was looking at the squad and some of the talent and hoping wed bounce back in maybe 2 years, ready for some momentum to the next RWC...

We have a lot of talent, but none of them have experience. Mathias, Lloyd, Lake, Jenkins, Teddy William's, Basham, Botham, Carter, Fender, Morse, Martin, Mann, Morgan, Tshiunza, Bevan, Llewellyn, Grady, Winnett, Edward's etc all are under 24, and have high potential. Dyer is only 24 too, both Costelow and Lloyd although look useless are 22 also.
All of these have had Welsh camp involvement, I think only 4 are uncapped.

complimented by the likes of Domachowski, Reffell, Wainwright, Watkin etc who are all 26 or so...

By the next RWC these 26 players will all be 20 caps plus better off, and even the holders in their prime.

Do you think they're close to contending for Grand slams? I think thats more of a 5-8 year timeline if they do well from the outside looking in.

I'm not worried long term, I think plenty of these will step up and be good international players, I AM worried about RWC seeding, and how far down the pecking order we will be by then. Theres no point pulling an Ireland or Scotland, and peaking at the wrong time and failing to go deep into the tournament...

Depends how you rate it I suppose. I'd take that series win in NZ over a semi final for sure (the Chicago win and the Aussie one too if I'm honest). Add 17 games unbeaten, a grand slam and now bouncing back to have a decent shot at defending it, I think there's been a lot of point to the work we've done in the last 10 years under Joe and Andy.

I'm confident the World Cup will come and I don't mean just making a semi final when I say that.

 

[Smurfy]

Do you think they're close to contending for Grand slams? I think thats more of a 5-8 year timeline if they do well from the outside looking in.


Depends how you rate it I suppose. I'd take that series win in NZ over a semi final for sure (the Chicago win and the Aussie one too if I'm honest). Add 17 games unbeaten, a grand slam and now bouncing back to have a decent shot at defending it, I think there's been a lot of point to the work we've done in the last 10 years under Joe and Andy.

I'm confident the World Cup will come and I don't mean just making a semi final when I say that.

It's almost as if rugby played between RWCs doesn't matter anymore, and that every achievement outside of the RWC should be dismissed because all the other sides are only using the interim period to prepare for that singular event, and peaking then. In fairness, far from peaking too early, it could be said, based on the form we've shown this year, that we've peaked too late.

 

[dirty harry]

Do you think they're close to contending for Grand slams? I think thats more of a 5-8 year timeline if they do well from the outside looking in.


Depends how you rate it I suppose. I'd take that series win in NZ over a semi final for sure (the Chicago win and the Aussie one too if I'm honest). Add 17 games unbeaten, a grand slam and now bouncing back to have a decent shot at defending it, I think there's been a lot of point to the work we've done in the last 10 years under Joe and Andy.

I'm confident the World Cup will come and I don't mean just making a semi final when I say that.

I dont think they're close now, but I'm hopeful that theyll have a crack 2026, before attacking the RWC with a squad average age of 26/27...
However, you never know, France really did turn it around in 12 months after Edward's was appointed.

I get the NZ series win that was big, but Aus, Boston and undefeated run, I think it really is teams with small trophy cabinets who treasure those things.

Wales have been blessed with championships and grand slams over the years, 3 times as many as Ireland has, and even in 2019 after what 15 undefeated losing the streak in a RWC warm up game didnt mean much to us.

Ultimately irelands grand slams have mostly come when Wales have been in turmoil, 2009 Wales were trying new things, and probably should have won that final game, 2018 Wales had a crazy injury list, and were missing 10+ starters, rectified after that tournament, and 2023 well Wales, and England didnt compete choosing to build instead.

I've told Irish friends previously, noone has ever gone from never making a semi, to winning the RWC, teams generally go deep the tournament before and win the next, none of the Irish players have ever gone to the last weekend, that's massive for experience to win it. More often than not the RWC winner made the semis in the previous tournament.

 

[dirty harry]

It's almost as if rugby played between RWCs doesn't matter anymore, and that every achievement outside of the RWC should be dismissed because all the other sides are only using the interim period to prepare for that singular event, and peaking then. In fairness, far from peaking too early, it could be said, based on the form we've shown this year, that we've peaked too late.

Periodisation, commitment and money has kind of dictated that a bit.

I dont think 6n ***les can be devalued, but there are certain tournaments that can hold an asterix... like last years GS. I would also add SA's 2019 RWC win also.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I dont think they're close now, but I'm hopeful that theyll have a crack 2026, before attacking the RWC with a squad average age of 26/27...
However, you never know, France really did turn it around in 12 months after Edward's was appointed.

I get the NZ series win that was big, but Aus, Boston and undefeated run, I think it really is teams with small trophy cabinets who treasure those things.

Wales have been blessed with championships and grand slams over the years, 3 times as many as Ireland has, and even in 2019 after what 15 undefeated losing the streak in a RWC warm up game didnt mean much to us.

Ultimately irelands grand slams have mostly come when Wales have been in turmoil, 2009 Wales were trying new things, and probably should have won that final game, 2018 Wales had a crazy injury list, and were missing 10+ starters, rectified after that tournament, and 2023 well Wales, and England didnt compete choosing to build instead.

I've told Irish friends previously, noone has ever gone from never making a semi, to winning the RWC, teams generally go deep the tournament before and win the next, none of the Irish players have ever gone to the last weekend, that's massive for experience to win it. More often than not the RWC winner made the semis in the previous tournament.

Feel like you're on the wind up here, the asterisk comment more or less confirms it. Good effort.

If you're as old as the hills and/or value lucky World Cup draws over wins against the world's best teams you might look down on Irish rugby's achievements as a Welsh fan. But truthfully no one can really look at the pro era as a whole and think Wales are the big dogs in this rivalry.

 

[Smurfy]

Feel like you're on the wind up here, the asterisk comment more or less confirms it. Good effort.

If you're as old as the hills and/or value lucky World Cup draws over wins against the world's best teams you might look down on Irish rugby's achievements as a Welsh fan. But truthfully no one can really look at the pro era as a whole and think Wales are the big dogs in this rivalry.

I think he might actually be serious.