[2021 Six Nations] France vs Wales (20/03/2021)

[Not Eddie Jones]

Bonus win for me, or nothing.

It's interesting: if Wales get a losing bonus point and France fail to score a 4-try bonus point, the ***le will go to Wales regardless of the outcome of France-Scotland. So Wales don't need a win here to get the ***le, they just need to not lose too badly.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Wales with ease. They'll rattle France early on and control the game. Wales are 6N specialists somehow.

They've won 1 ***le in the last 7 tournaments. Not much of a specialism...

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

I don't think theres much point in getting into the old "world class" debate as it's so subjective and we're likely to have very different definitions.

Is it subjective? I thought the clue was in the ***le. World class means you would play for a world team, just as international class means you would play for an international team, amateur class would mean you would play for an amateur team etc. I don't get what people's confusion is. Has the word 'world' now got a different meaning?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Is it subjective? I thought the clue was in the ***le. World class means you would play for a world team, just as international class means you would play for an international team, amateur class would mean you would play for an amateur team etc. I don't get what people's confusion is. Has the word 'world' now got a different meaning?

That's one definition I suppose. I don't think that's exactly a common interpretation but it's yours and that's fine.

Even then, it's still subjective isn't it. I mean, there isn't a World Team so who people believe should play in this imaginary team is totally subjective.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Why do you care? If neither of those things happen it won't stop you and most English fans from saying Jam Slam or what have you.

No credit will be given to the Welsh players who will still be considered average at best. No respect will be given to a nation with 50k registered players achieving their 2nd Grand Slam in 3 years and their 5th since 2005. It'll just be an anomaly or down to ref decisions so it matters not.

And they call the Welsh petty.

Let's swing it around and say that England had Wales' results this 6 Nations and last. How much credit would other nations fans give them? Let's see:

England are coming off a year when they only beat Italy and Georgia while finishing 5th in both the 6N and the ANC.
England have then played 320 minutes of 6N rugby in 2021 and for 112 of those minutes (35% - more than one-third of the time) they've played against 14 men. Despite this, they scraped narrow wins over Ireland and Scotland with the win in doubt until the final whistle.
The only game in which England played a full match against 15 men, they got two highly questionable first half tries awarded by the ref (anyone else notice Romain Poite telling Sexton on the weekend 'Don't be scared, I'll let you know when time is on' after the ref asked Sexton to talk to his team and Sexton was instead lining them up along the tryline?) and even then, England allowed their opponents to draw level and needed a load of silly penalties by the opposition in the closing stages to see them off.

I'm sure England would get a ton of credit, especially from Wales fans. And everybody would be agreeing that England deserved to be top of the 6N table and if they won the Grand Slam it would be completely unquestioned.

 

[Jakedood]

Let's swing it around and say that England had Wales' results this 6 Nations and last. How much credit would other nations fans give them? Let's see:

England are coming off a year when they only beat Italy and Georgia while finishing 5th in both the 6N and the ANC.
England have then played 320 minutes of 6N rugby in 2021 and for 112 of those minutes (35% - more than one-third of the time) they've played against 14 men. Despite this, they scraped narrow wins over Ireland and Scotland with the win in doubt until the final whistle.
The only game in which England played a full match against 15 men, they got two highly questionable first half tries awarded by the ref (anyone else notice Romain Poite telling Sexton on the weekend 'Don't be scared, I'll let you know when time is on' after the ref asked Sexton to talk to his team and Sexton was instead lining them up along the tryline?) and even then, England allowed their opponents to draw level and needed a load of silly penalties by the opposition in the closing stages to see them off.

I'm sure England would get a ton of credit, especially from Wales fans. And everybody would be agreeing that England deserved to be top of the 6N table and if they won the Grand Slam it would be completely unquestioned.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Let's swing it around and say that England had Wales' results this 6 Nations and last. How much credit would other nations fans give them? Let's see:

England are coming off a year when they only beat Italy and Georgia while finishing 5th in both the 6N and the ANC.
England have then played 320 minutes of 6N rugby in 2021 and for 112 of those minutes (35% - more than one-third of the time) they've played against 14 men. Despite this, they scraped narrow wins over Ireland and Scotland with the win in doubt until the final whistle.
The only game in which England played a full match against 15 men, they got two highly questionable first half tries awarded by the ref (anyone else notice Romain Poite telling Sexton on the weekend 'Don't be scared, I'll let you know when time is on' after the ref asked Sexton to talk to his team and Sexton was instead lining them up along the tryline?) and even then, England allowed their opponents to draw level and needed a load of silly penalties by the opposition in the closing stages to see them off.

I'm sure England would get a ton of credit, especially from Wales fans. And everybody would be agreeing that England deserved to be top of the 6N table and if they won the Grand Slam it would be completely unquestioned.

Nice bit of whataboutism.

I'm only going by what I'm seeing on here and have heard elsewhere. I can't transport myself to a parallel universe where what you have said happened i'm afraid.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

That's one definition I suppose. I don't think that's exactly a common interpretation but it's yours and that's fine.

Even then, it's still subjective isn't it. I mean, there isn't a World Team so who people believe should play in this imaginary team is totally subjective.

I agree that who would play in a world team is subjective, absolutely. But what other interpretation of the word 'world' is there? I'm lost.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Meh the world class tag is completely subjective to different people.

Onto this game, Wales aren't stupid, they know exactly what they'll need to do to win. I love the way France play and if Ntmack starts I'd give them a better chance of winning, because I'd put him in the world class bracket he that's good.

If Wales were to score early then get a couple penalties on the board would France rise to the challenge? I'm not entirely sure as they're young and haven't been through that yet. Player for player France are probably better but that's because they're the most talented in most 6 nations, we've seen for the first time in a long time they're playing as a team.

I'd go Wales by 8

 

[Welsh Exile]

I agree that who would play in a world team is subjective, absolutely. But what other interpretation of the word 'world' is there? I'm lost.

So it is subjective then but you're saying just the selection of players not then definition of the term. That's fine.

Words can take on new meanings in various contexts all the time. Language is funny like that.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I wouldn't consider teams committing an act of foul play lucky. Two poor refs decisions in the England game probably is though.
At the end of the day, regardless of how jammy it is, Wales still have 4 wins on the board and going for that grand slam, still counts the same as the others.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Nice bit of whataboutism.

I'm only going by what I'm seeing on here and have heard elsewhere. I can't transport myself to a parallel universe where what you have said happened i'm afraid.

Sure, but you have empathy don't you? And you can see things from other people's points of view? It's not like the criticisms people are making about Wales' success this year are without foundation, and are based solely on some kind of anti-Welsh bias. They're legitimate points. Frankly, if England really had had Wales' year, I'm pretty sure that most England fans would be extremely unhappy with their team. Hell, we won the 6N and ANC last year (in reality) and England fans were extremely unhappy with their team. Sure, England fans are miserable bunch most of the time anyway, but in such a scenario, they'd have a legitimate beef.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Meh the world class tag is completely subjective to different people.

Onto this game, Wales aren't stupid, they know exactly what they'll need to do to win. I love the way France play and if Ntmack starts I'd give them a better chance of winning, because I'd put him in the world class bracket he that's good.

If Wales were to score early then get a couple penalties on the board would France rise to the challenge? I'm not entirely sure as they're young and haven't been through that yet. Player for player France are probably better but that's because they're the most talented in most 6 nations, we've seen for the first time in a long time they're playing as a team.

I'd go Wales by 8

I still can't believe that his wasn't brought on last week. You could slowly see the momentum swinging England's way but they choose to keep him on the bench, seemed odd at the time and even worse in hindsight.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

I do feel this game is more important to France than it is to Wales. If Wales win or Wales lose, results have improved, so Pivac stays until the World Cup and on they go. If France lose, it's back-to-back losses for a team that has been hyped an awful lot the last year or so, won a lot of games, played some excellent rugby and been an early favourite for the 2023 World Cup. And a home loss to boot, the place they should be building into a fortress for the WC. It could really puncture their balloon, and then who knows?

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Genuine question for Welsh posters: what effect do you think Shaun Edwards being France defence coach is going to have against Wales? I know he's something of a legend for you fellas.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I still can't believe that his wasn't brought on last week. You could slowly see the momentum swinging England's way but they choose to keep him on the bench, seemed odd at the time and even worse in hindsight.

Seemed absolutely crazy, maybe his fitness wasn't there but why have him on the bench? France's management really sh*t the bed and could do again against Wales

 

[Welsh Exile]

Sure, but you have empathy don't you? And you can see things from other people's points of view? It's not like the criticisms people are making about Wales' success this year are without foundation, and are based solely on some kind of anti-Welsh bias. They're legitimate points. Frankly, if England really had had Wales' year, I'm pretty sure that most England fans would be extremely unhappy with their team. Hell, we won the 6N and ANC last year (in reality) and England fans were extremely unhappy with their team. Sure, England fans are miserable bunch most of the time anyway, but in such a scenario, they'd have a legitimate beef.

Mate, don't take this the wrong way but I'm really not interested in debating with you if all you can say is what about...........

You might be right, you might be wrong. I don't know. I personally don't really care.

I think it's clear there is a massive anti Welsh vibe in here.

 

[Reiser99]

I think Wales are favourites personally. Got momentum behind them and know how to close out tight games where there is a lot riding on it.

 

[AlRums]

French rugby reminding Wales how games can go

 

[MattGaff]

Genuine question for Welsh posters: what effect do you think Shaun Edwards being France defence coach is going to have against Wales? I know he's something of a legend for you fellas.

I was going to bring this up and then saw your post - had to trawl through 5 pages of mostly dross first!

I think it will benefit us. He was with us such a long time the players will know his mindset very well. We might find the odd weakness at times but other than that, I think its better for us than France!