[2021 Six Nations] France vs Wales (20/03/2021)

[Jakedood]

Somehow? We have some very good rugby players. World class even. Hard for some of you to believe I know.

I dont mean to be rude, but for me world class is thrown about too often. How many Wales players get in a world 23? I really dont think many at all, potentially LRZ but i'd suggest he's too untested, other than him I cant see any making it in their current positions. World class mean they'd start in a World's 23
I wouldnt necessarily pick him, but he's the only player I'd say has the stardust to make it into that team. Not saying it isnt a good team, just with the whole "world class" issue

 

[ForumWhore]

Going for a 2nd grand slam in 3 years is an anomaly is it?

Winning 4 since 2005 is very respectable in my humble opinion and can't be written off as an anomaly but I suspect you know this.

You have sort of agreed with me. They are successful in the 6n. My point is that outside of that they don't achieve that much. England and Ireland are more likely to beat NZ than Wales, for example.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I dont mean to be rude, but for me world class is thrown about too often. How many Wales players get in a world 23? I really dont think many at all, potentially LRZ but i'd suggest he's too untested, other than him I cant see any making it in their current positions. World class mean they'd start in a World's 23

Be rude mate I don't mind. I've been called a
Liar by a staff member on here and stupid by another one so seems like that this is the kind of forum it is so crack on bud. Water off a ducks back.

I don't think theres much point in getting into the old "world class" debate as it's so subjective and we're likely to have very different definitions.

 

[ncurd]

Forum Whore = World class means making world 23
Welsh Exile= World Class means being Welsh aka the Gatland standard

 

[Welsh Exile]

You have sort of agreed with me. They are successful in the 6n. My point is that outside of that they don't achieve that much. England and Ireland are more likely to beat NZ than Wales, for example.

2 World Cup semi finals in our last 3 world cups is nothing to be ashamed about. I don't think Wales are the greatest side in the world and I think top 4 is very good for a small, poor nation that only has 50k registered rugby players. Compare that to Ireland, England and France and it's very respectable.

 

[Jakedood]

JAKEDOOD = World class means making world 23
Welsh Exile= World Class means being Welsh aka the Gatland standard

FTFY

 

[Jakedood]

Be rude mate I don't mind. I've been called a
Liar by a staff member on here and stupid by another one so seems like that this is the kind of forum it is so crack on bud. Water off a ducks back.

I don't think theres much point in getting into the old "world class" debate as it's so subjective and we're likely to have very different definitions.

What is your definition? How many worldwide players do you think you should we be able to call world class?

 

[ncurd]

See another thing is, I dont have exact possession stats in front of me, but looking at welsh tackle numbers, and also how few passes their scrummie has made compared to every other team, I'd guess that they may not be playing the possession based game?
One thing is if you give France ball, eventually they'll create space, and they can do it off first phase and open play. This may not be a great matchup, Wales may grind out the win, but i dont think I'd expect them to wholly outplay France, it'll need to be nitty gritty i'd surmise

Its interesting with Wales you are right with tackle stats it suggest Wales are playing as England did for every game except France where they don't want possession of the ball. Honestly that's suicide against France currently but they will need retain the ball because France can and do create something out of nothing and it'll look georgeous.

FTFY

apologies.

 

[Welsh Exile]

What is your definition? How many worldwide players do you think you should we be able to call world class?

A lot more than 23.

 

[Jakedood]

Its interesting with Wales you are right with tackle stats it suggest Wales are playing as England did for every game except France where they don't want possession of the ball. Honestly that's suicide against France currently but they will need retain the ball because France can and do create something out of nothing and it'll look georgeous.

apologies.

If Wales throw the pill around at least it'll be an entertaining match. The England v France game with ball in play and the intensity of the rucks speed, it's the msot fatigued I've seen two teams in the final 10 minutes for a long time. And I LOVED it. More of that, it taxes every bit of ability you have to play that way, and would make a great spectacle to see again

 

[Jakedood]

A lot more than 23.

Give me a number, 100? I'd say thats excessive, could maybe say 35 and make it a squad of players? I could understand that, but any more and you're just diluting it by comparing the AWJ to Eben Etzebeths, the Owen Farrell's to Beauden Barrett, and it takes the shine off it. Gotta be an exclusive club to at least make it noteworthy

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I just thought that as a staff member (or just as a decent human being) you might think it would be the right thing to do. I know I would but each to their own.

Maybe I should go around calling into question peoples character with baseless accusations. I wonder if you'd tolerate that as a staff member on this here board.

You called yourself a liar,
I said "[citation needed]" under one of your posts, which had no citation

 

[Welsh Exile]

You called yourself a liar,
I said "[citation needed]" under one of your posts, which had no citation

Jesus, is it that hard for you just to say "sorry mate, I was wrong to assume/imply/call you a liar when you weren't" It's fine though. No Biggy.

 

[ForumWhore]

Gotta larf at Humphries saying the foundations for this year's success were created in 2020. Well done Wales this year but you are literally a gnat's pube away from looking for a new coach.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Give me a number, 100? I'd say thats excessive, could maybe say 35 and make it a squad of players? I could understand that, but any more and you're just diluting it by comparing the AWJ to Eben Etzebeths, the Owen Farrell's to Beauden Barrett, and it takes the shine off it. Gotta be an exclusive club to at least make it noteworthy

This is why this is totally pointless and why I didn't really want to get involved in it. As I suspected we have wildly different definitions of what constitutes world class. You think there's only 23 world class players in the world. On the other end of the extreme people will say any regular international is world class but the truth, in my humble opinion, will be somewhere in between.

 

[ncurd]

Jesus, is it that hard for you just to say "sorry mate, I was wrong to assume/imply/call you a liar when you weren't" It's fine though. No Biggy.

If someone asked me provide evedence that a thing I was saying was correct I wouldn't start accusing them of calling me a liar, I also wouldn't be holding a grudge about it.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The key to beating France currently is possession/territory and staving them of it, one of telling factors in the 2nd half was England stopped France getting the 22 at all.

I think that's oversimplifying things to be honest. Ireland had 60% possession and France won and should have done so with too more tries but for unforced errors. They stopped looking threatening after Connors came on and got to Dupont, nullifying the halfbacks and backline as a result. In the second half of the England game, England's attrition and fitness won out and France couldn't secure clean ball with the same result.

For all of his endless failings Tipuric could definitely take on the role Connors did of hassling Dupont and always being in his face, it's whether the front five can live with France's that'd be my worry as a Welsh fan.

 

[Welsh Exile]

If someone asked me provide evedence that a thing I was saying was correct I wouldn't start accusing them of calling me a liar, I also wouldn't be holding a grudge about it.

That's not how it went down. I told him where I heard the info (from Wayne Barnes) he chose to imply that I was making it up purely because he totally misinterpreted something I had said previously.

I hold no grudges. I like quite a lot of the stuff he has said since and rated it as such and like Injust said, no Biggy. I just thought that he might apologise but he's doubled down instead. That's his choice and I don't really care but I always give people the chance to do the right thing as I would hope someone would do to me if I insult someone's character.

 

[Jakedood]

This is why this is totally pointless and why I didn't really want to get involved in it. As I suspected we have wildly different definitions of what constitutes world class. You think there's only 23 world class players in the world. On the other end of the extreme people will say any regular international is world class but the truth, in my humble opinion, will be somewhere in between.

I can agree to disagree , but I would say international class and world class are two very different things
By this definition it sounds like men like dan Biggar are "world class" and that just doesnt quite sit right with myself

 

[Welsh Exile]

I can agree to disagree , but I would say international class and world class are two very different things
By this definition it sounds like men like dan Biggar are "world class" and that just doesnt quite sit right with myself

I would agree that there's a difference between international class and world class. I'm just saying that some people will say that, in a niche sport like Rugby, if you play for your country regularly you are by definition world class. I don't agree with that view, I find it as equally preposterous as your take that unless you get into a world 23 then you're not world class. These things aren't quantifiable so they're fun but ultimately pointless. It's just opinions about who your favourite players are at the end of the day.

The Biggar one is interesting. I don't have him down as World class but there's areas of his game that are world class (defence and high ball) and he's ******* consistent so I wouldn't begrudge anyone who did say he's world class