[2018 Six Nations] England Squad

[RugbyMarvel]

Not good reading when you compare his trajectory versus that of Sinckler

 

[Chief Pete]

Where was this said exactly and is it online anywhere yet?

At halftime of the Wales game, John Inverdale said that EJ had just done his interview with 5Live and that is what he said during that interview amongst other things....

 

[ratsapprentice]

At halftime of the Wales game, John Inverdale said that EJ had just done his interview with 5Live and that is what he said during that interview amongst other things....

Again... that's not what he said.

He said that there are players in the 6n squad who were only there to cover injuries to other players, and that when those players return from injury the covering players will "struggle to get in the team".

Basically, when Billy, Underhill, Hughes et al are fit, guys like Armand aren't likely to be picked ahead of them.

Chinese whispers.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Again... that's not what he said.

He said that there are players in the 6n squad who were only there to cover injuries to other players, and that when those players return from injury the covering players will "struggle to get in the team".

Basically, when Billy, Underhill, Hughes et al are fit, guys like Armand aren't likely to be picked ahead of them.

Chinese whispers.

Kind of obvious though isn't it?

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Kind of obvious though isn't it?

Yeah.. Who knew Wigglesworth wasnt the future of england rugby

 

[Chief Pete]

Where was this said exactly and is it online anywhere yet?

At halftime of the Wales game, John Inverdale said that EJ had just done his interview with 5Live and that is what he said amongst other things....

Again... that's not what he said.

He said that there are players in the 6n squad who were only there to cover injuries to other players, and that when those players return from injury the covering players will "struggle to get in the team".

Basically, when Billy, Underhill, Hughes et al are fit, guys like Armand aren't likely to be picked ahead of them.

Chinese whispers.

Apologies, haven't heard the interview, just Inverdales comment which now seems over exaggerated on his part...

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

It would be much quicker to set about drafting a list of players whose places are safe than the other way round.

But with the world cup only next year It's hard to imagine drastic changes. Rock and a hard place, I think we're ****** to be honest. If it was two years ago fine.

There's so many disappointments I don't know where to begin. Such an unbearably large amount of deadwood.

Sam Simmonds is not up to international level. Joseph is living off old form, he's already falling over by the time he enters contact these days. Te'o is a wasted spot, Hartley and Cole bring nothing, Robshaws unseen work is so unseen that he's half a back rower, we don't have a genuinely viable alternative to Brown at full back, all our scrum halves are garbage except Robson, all our locks are in appalling form.

Say what you want but Robson and Cipriani on the bench could have impacted on that game.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I am beginning to think winning 2019 RWC is beyond this group of players. Too much time has been spent choosing players of the likes of Hartley, Cole, Robshaw and Brown who are not world class players, it should be England's absolute core players going into this RWC. Time to temper expectations - winning a RWC is probably a 6-8 year cycle (from RWC 2015) considering the caps and world class players needed to win one, so better start planning for 2023.

 

[FLOBALOB]

[QUOTE="The_Blindside, post: 896665, member: 70552"]I am beginning to think winning 2019 RWC is beyond this group of players. Too much time has been spent choosing players of the likes of Hartley, Cole, Robshaw and Brown who are not world class players, it should be England's absolute core players going into this RWC. Time to temper expectations - winning a RWC is probably a 6-8 year cycle (from RWC 2015) considering the caps and world class players needed to win one, so better start planning for 2023.[/QUOTE]

Some of us have been thinking this for the last 12 -18 months or so.

 

[Raggs]

Robshaws unseen work is so unseen that he's half a back rower, we don't have a genuinely viable alternative to Brown at full back, all our scrum halves are garbage except Robson, all our locks are in appalling form.

Robshaw hit more rucks than any other England player, Haskell just behind, and arguably slightly more effective. By my count Robshaw also carried more than any other forward than Mako, and was acceptable at it. His workrate was unmatched by any other starter, Haskell 2nd. Itoje has been far less visible this 6N, but as Sanderson has said, is it the player playing worse, or just the viewers not seeing it? I'd argue it's the viewers, he's been ridiculously busy doing what locks are supposed to do, much the same as Launchbury.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Robshaw hit more rucks than any other England player, Haskell just behind, and arguably slightly more effective. By my count Robshaw also carried more than any other forward than Mako, and was acceptable at it. His workrate was unmatched by any other starter, Haskell 2nd. Itoje has been far less visible this 6N, but as Sanderson has said, is it the player playing worse, or just the viewers not seeing it? I'd argue it's the viewers, he's been ridiculously busy doing what locks are supposed to do, much the same as Launchbury.

This

Robshaw carried 12 times for 24 metres, only bettered by Mako from the pack.

He made 15 tackles and only missed one. 3rd highest contributor after Kruis and Haskell.

He clears rucks and constantly is working. You never really see him out of the action. That can also be said for Itoje: He never looks to be hanging around waiting for work, because he's constantly busy. Obviously he isn't on top form but he needs a break and some of his breakdown work has been curtailed by the law changes.

Robshaw isn't ever going to light up a game with bullocking drives, big hits or wonder offloads, but he cleans up messes and will allow other more dynamic players to shine (when they're eventually selected).

 

[ratsapprentice]

The volume of work done by Robshaw has never been in doubt, it's the end-result of that work that is... balance your pack poorly, and it's not all that useful.

The major problem I have, is that he's never ever subbed... as I've been pointing out for at least 3-4 years, even McCaw was subbed to bring through Cane.
It's important for international sides to constantly bring through new players, not intermittently at the beginning of the 4 year cycles.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

The volume of work done by Robshaw has never been in doubt, it's the end-result of that work that is... balance your pack poorly, and it's not all that useful.

The major problem I have, is that he's never ever subbed... as I've been pointing out for at least 3-4 years, even McCaw was subbed to bring through Cane.
It's important for international sides to constantly bring through new players, not intermittently at the beginning of the 4 year cycles.

Totally agree re balance, I've said all along that the pack has been a badly selected set of players in terms of carrying and breakdown efficiency.

He isn't often or ever replaced is he. Suppose again an EJ flaw...

 

[Raggs]

You can only arguably replace one of your backrow each game, Robshaw has a superb engine, that McCaw was losing towards the end of his career.

Balance was definitely off with Lawes at 6 though.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

A great workhorse doesn't make a great international.
Robshaw does alot of work but how much of that work is with that power the likes of the Irish backrow hit with?

We have been bossed at the breakdown regardless of how many he hit. The balance is off obviously and it isn't Robshaw fault. BUT even in the prem Robshaw is a quality solid option their are younger players that do just as much work now with the added oomph.

I think it is telling of the packs performance on the whole that he is so high in the stats compared to the rest of them.

Eddie is doing to Robshaw what Lancaster did with robshaw and failing to build now depth behind him.

 

[ratsapprentice]

He isn't often or ever replaced is he. Suppose again an EJ flaw...

The troubling thing is that it seems to be an England flaw.

 

[Raggs]

A great workhorse doesn't make a great international.
Robshaw does alot of work but how much of that work is with that power the likes of the Irish backrow hit with?

We have been bossed at the breakdown regardless of how many he hit. The balance is off obviously and it isn't Robshaw fault. BUT even in the prem Robshaw is a quality solid option their are younger players that do just as much work now with the added oomph.

I think it is telling of the packs performance on the whole that he is so high in the stats compared to the rest of them.

Eddie is doing to Robshaw what Lancaster did with robshaw and build now depth behind him.

It's not all about hitting rucks with power though. You can smash a ruck, but end up clearing the player, and yourself, clean off the ruck, and effectively achieve nothing. I don't believe there was a single ruck where he didn't put in sufficient effort.

Yes, we've been bossed in the breakdown before, and partially in rucks he's failed to arrive to or clear in time, but he's just 1 guy, and there's going to be 100 or so of our attacking rucks that he can't get to, that are others responsibility.

Simmonds was the only one who disappointed me seriously with workrate in the Ireland game. The rest vary, but there's things not taken into account, like lineout takes/lifts, and scrums for locks/props.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Robshaw hit more rucks than any other England player, Haskell just behind, and arguably slightly more effective. By my count Robshaw also carried more than any other forward than Mako, and was acceptable at it. His workrate was unmatched by any other starter, Haskell 2nd. Itoje has been far less visible this 6N, but as Sanderson has said, is it the player playing worse, or just the viewers not seeing it? I'd argue it's the viewers, he's been ridiculously busy doing what locks are supposed to do, much the same as Launchbury.

Our pack has been terrible. Much of the blame has been directed at Hartley and Cole and an imbalanced back row but that's not the whole story.

Itoje clearly hasn't been hitting the heights he has done previously. Plus average hands and above average penalty count. I don't think you'll find many arguing otherwise. From what I've seen of Sarries this year, he's not really stood out for them either. Tired / out of form / been worked out.

As for Robshaw it's the perennial argument. He does a lot, but not especially impactfully. It's time to look at others. If they don't cut it, we can go back to him and know precisely what we're going to get.

The Blindside. If Arg start to get their act together I'm going to be more worried about getting out of the group than winning it!

 

[Raggs]

Our pack has been terrible. Much of the blame has been directed at Hartley and Cole and an imbalanced back row but that's not the whole story.

Itoje clearly hasn't been hitting the heights he has done previously. Plus average hands and above average penalty count. I don't think you'll find many arguing otherwise. From what I've seen of Sarries this year, he's not really stood out for them either. Tired / out of form / been worked out.

As for Robshaw it's the perennial argument. He does a lot, but not especially impactfully. It's time to look at others. If they don't cut it, we can go back to him and know precisely what we're going to get.

The Blindside. If Arg start to get their act together I'm going to be more worried about getting out of the group than winning it!

Our pack has been poor as a unit. Hartley works very hard, Cole I agree has been pretty useless. Itoje has been playing as a lock should, and he's been doing it well, Sanderson made the same point, less flash stuff, more proper lock stuff, Launchbury underwent the same transformation a few seasons ago.

Robshaw is constantly argued over, and I'd like to see us try other options at 7 (Robshaw isn't fast enough to be a 7), but then I'd still have Robshaw at 6.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Let's hope Underhill and B.Curry/T.Curry get a shot in SA.

Would be interested to see flankers as follows in each test:

1st Test - 6. Robshaw 7. Underhill

2nd Test - 6. Underhill 7. Curry

3rd Test - 6. Robshaw 7. Curry

Think each getting two tests (just pick the fittest Curry at the time, other one still over there getting experience) is a good way of testing their quality, testing out the balance, and not getting stuck in another rut.